No Bay Area Gas Heaters After 2027?

[Dean Hoffman]

No new ones anyhow. Electricians will be making more money. I imagine people of limited means will be doing a lot of DIY repair on whatever they have.

OR. <tinyurl.com/2tzcsf86>

[fos]

"The rules do not apply to gas stoves. They also don’t apply to gas-powered dryers, water heaters larger than 2 million BTU/hour, appliances that use propane or other non-natural gas fuels and mobile home furnaces."

are there any ordinances prohibiting installing propane tanks there? natural gas appliances are easily converted to propane by changing metering orifices.

[invalid unparseable]

Reminds me that some greenie here said while governor of DE wants only sales of EV's in the state after 2035 but existing gasoline powered cars will still be allowed. I imagine it will be like Cuba here with 75 year old cars still being driven in our bleak future.

[Oscar]

Problem is that democrats are constantly changing the rules.

I wouldn't want propane in any house with a basement.

We really need to get the tyrannical WEF Democrats out of office in 2024.

[trader_4]

It's also remarkably stupid because that area has a moderate climate, so gas usage for heating homes isn't a lot. Meanwhile China is building coal fired plants at a record pace.

[Cindy Hamilton]

We can't really control what China does. We can control ourselves, though.

If your neighbor throws garbage in the street, shouldn't you make the effort to put yours in a trash can?

Oh, and people of limited means don't own houses in San Francisco.

[Scott Lurndal]

Right, tell that to my neice whose nat. gas bill for heating has been over $330/month for the last four months. It gets below freezing at night often during late december through february, and ranges from the 30's to low 40's most of the winter nights, and highs in the 50's most of the days. This winter has been colder than normal. I have used 300 gallons of LP at my house since Nov 1, 2022, augmented by a full cord of firewood for heating. Coldest overnight temperature was

28F this winter. It is currently 42F and the heater is running.

What the new rules require is replacement with a heat pump (perfectly viable and far more efficient) if, and _only_ if, the existing system requires replacement. Yes, they are currently more expensive; one can assume that with volume, the prices will moderate.

[Clare Snyder]

Up here in Central Ontario in the great white north" I spend about $800 canadian mini-bucks a YEAR to heat my house.(including my hot water) Mind you, there is over a foot of fiberglass insulation in my attic and all my windows are double glazed argon filled with vinyl frames and spacers -- -

[Cindy Hamilton]

Maybe she needs some more insulation. Our house would stay at 71 F under those conditions, just from the waste heat of refrigerator, television, two bodies, and the dishwasher.

It got down to -4 F on February 4. That's not unusual here, but overall it's been a fairly warm winter.

I used 92 CCF of natural gas during that billing cycle, including cooking and hot water. It cost me $103.14. By way of comparison, I used 24 CCF in July for a cost of $36.89. Both of those figures include $13.50 for the privilege of having an account with the utility, plus a couple of bucks in bribery and corruption.

[trader_4]

Not if the cost is lost jobs, losses to the economy and the street is still full of trash anyway. That is what is happening. The US is putting higher costs on businesses and consumers, while China takes over more and more with low costs, driven in part by cheap energy. If Biden gave a damn, he'd be working to get the world on board to fix the China problem. But since they put tens of millions in his pocket, he's bought and paid for.

Irrelevant and the rest of California is on the same path.

[trader_4]

No surprise there, it's what happens in lib hell holes run by libs with all their screwy laws and imposition on free markets.

It gets below freezing

Right and they will run on moon beams.

[Dean Hoffman]

I'm on a budget which means the gas company just bills me for average cost. A quick search showed the average size of a new house is 2500 sq. ft. I'd pay about $240/month year around if I had a big house like that.

The average high temperature in Lincoln, NE in January is 35º F, average low 14º F. It was -13º F one morning. I think it stayed below 0 a couple days. I just don't like the idea of government requiring this. Let people decide on their own.

[Scott Lurndal]

If you would simply address the facts rather than devolving into namecalling and political bullshit, you'd be a more pleasant person by far.

Why don't you concentrate on fixing the air quality and crime problems in New Jersey rather than continually bitching and moaning about other people and places?

[Scott Lurndal]

That works only when a person's choice doesn't adversely affect their neighbors. Which, in this case, doesn't apply.

With your philosophy, you have no protection from your neighbor polluting your water supply or from blowing toxic chemicals into your home.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I average about 6 to 7 ccf. Hot water, cooking, grilling, drying clothes. My base cost is $18.10 though.

Heating not often used but heat pump works well and is cheap. Winter bills for all electric is mid $50s.

[Ed Pawlowski]

At what point do we decide on our own and at what point does the government step in?

Is pollution OK? Just a little or a lot? Water quality standards or do we decide if OK to drink?

What other regulations should be abandoned?

[Cindy Hamilton]

Yeah, my husband is a shower (twice a day) and laundry (every other day) monster. We got an electric dryer when we moved the laundry up to the screen porch; he was afraid CO would be sucked down the cold air returns that he added.

If we need to replace the furnace, we're thinking about a heat pump. We're keeping the generator, though. We had another (three day) power outage a couple weeks ago.

[T]

You thing they will eventually run out of things to "virtue signal" over? Probably not.

"globaloney" is fraud.

[trader_4]

ROFL. Typical lib. You go down one lib rant after another here, but I'm supposed to avoid political BS?

Wow, I really touched a lib nerve with that one, the truth hurts. You libs have jacked up the price of carbon fuels and electricity in CA too, for that matter. Then when people are being forced to get rid of their gas water heater, you say what's the big deal, look how expensive gas is.

[Dean Hoffman]

The change is based on speculation. Will we ever know if more or fewer deaths in the area are actually due to it? Maybe it would be a change in population. More street people? Is the change just moving things elsewhere? The old NIMBY thing? The power has to come from somewhere after all. Electricity kills people too. We can point to the corpse of a person who gets too close to electricity. Investigators can find a wiring mistake that caused a fire. I didn't see on demand gas water heaters mentioned as an alternative. That might've been just an author's oversight. Those would put less of a load on the electrical grid than all electric water heaters. They're more efficient than the old tank style water heaters. We'll always live in a risk/reward world. Highways would be safer if speed limits were 25 mph. nationwide.