New regs to make furnace replacement more expensive

Hi, Exactly!

Did you read the date of the article? That deadline hasn't happened yet.

You think so? Me, too.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

The few folks who continue to put in 80% are not going to amount to much in the grand scheme of things, the phoney EPA numbers are a lie.

The EPA would have us believe that going from 80% to 90% is a 20% savings? Are you sure?

Might be time to introduce some facts into this thread.

Looked around. Doesn't look to me like S.398 has been passed. What do you think?

Check this out:

Yep, in this news group, all regulations are phony because the posters are so smart.

Idiot.

The issue is about the higher costs of more efficient heating/cooling systems.

Issues regarding venting are only the effect, not the cause, of the increased cost.

This article came from a New Jersey news source and in New Jersey they are more concerned with heating than air conditioning. Had a similar article been written for Atlanta, the writers would have dwelled on a/c costs with only a passing mention of heating systems.

Or, it could be they have more provident uses for their meager sums - such as food.

Arrant nonsense. The higher the demand, the lower the price. That is if the government stays out of the way.

Bully! How would you feel if the government, in its infinite wisdom, PROHIBITED you from a more efficient system?

It's exactly the same concept. Exactly the same.

chase for the vent as well as the intake pipes. On some of the smaller furnaces all you need is a 2" PVC pipe for each. I imagine in most cases you can still find a shorter way to an outside wall but if completely stuck - there's still your old chimney right there.

are already spending a considerable amount of money. Why would you not spend perhaps less than 10% more (if even that) to install a much more efficient furnace that creates the same amount of heat using less gas? Makes no sense to me to object to a good thing only because "the government mandated it". Even with gas prices falling right now, I believe it's still worth getting a more efficient furnace - never know where the price is going to be in the future. And regardless, even after the 40%+ fall this year, it's still far from being free.

But that is sensible reasoning that doesn't flow with the normal heybub drama...

I did a lot of residential HVAC work with my late friend GB but most of the work I do now is commercial. A few weeks ago I did get a call from a little 90 year old lady who was a customer of mine and GB's to come out and fix her furnace. ^_^

TDD

Right. Up is down, Mr. Orwell.

Yeah, pretty much. Used to be able to burn leaves. Not now. Have to pay for front end loaders and dump trucks to haul them away. R-12. Catalytic converters. CFL's. No smoking in hospitals. On and on and on. This is the best part of the posted article.

"There?s still another concern ? and another possible cost ? if a home has a standard 40- or 50-gallon gas water heater. Those heaters are generally vented through the chimney along with the older furnaces. But after removing the old furnace venting pipe, there is not enough heat generated in the chimney by the water heater venting pipe alone to prevent condensation from occurring. And that condensation will include sulfuric acid, which can eat away at a chimney?s mortar joints. Re-venting the water heater could increase the total cost of the new furnace project by $3,000 to $4,000, Baum said."

So in that world gas furnaces run winter and summer to provide draft for the water heater. Strange world. But does add "$3,000 to $4,000" to get the Chicken Littles flapping and clucking.

Don't keep us in suspense. What did the furnace need, and did she feed you cookies?

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

I did a lot of residential HVAC work with my late friend GB but most of the work I do now is commercial. A few weeks ago I did get a call from a little 90 year old lady who was a customer of mine and GB's to come out and fix her furnace. ^_^

TDD

What's condensing in a furnace?? Never heard of that before.

Modern household furnaces are classified as condensing or non-condensing based on their efficiency in extracting heat from the exhaust gases.

No, that is utter nonsense and violates the law of supply & demand. The higher the SUPPLY, with a constant demand, the LOWER the price.

for the vent as well as the intake pipes. On some of the smaller furnaces all you need is a 2" PVC pipe for each. I imagine in most cases you can still find a shorter way to an outside wall but if completely stuck - there's still your old chimney right there.

are already spending a considerable amount of money. Why would you not spend perhaps less than 10% more (if even that) to install a much more efficient furnace that creates the same amount of heat using less gas? Makes no sense to me to object to a good thing only because "the government mandated it". Even with gas prices falling right now, I believe it's still worth getting a more efficient furnace - never know where the price is going to be in the future. And regardless, even after the 40%+ fall this year, it's still far from being free. Hopefully the NEW 95%+ furnaces last longer than the ones sold as little as 7 or 8 years ago. I went for the highest efficiency non condensing furnace I could buy when I replaced mine 9 years ago after my brother replaced his new condensing furnace after less than 2 years due to repetative expensive failures.

The deadline is long past up here in Ontario.

Flue gas exhaust from a furnace contains water vapor. If you can condense some of that steam back to water, you can get more heat from the fire.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

What's condensing in a furnace?? Never heard of that before.

I had repaired her furnace a year or two back after GB died when her basement flooded and destroyed the control board. Some moron from another service company had bypassed the flame roll-out switch which resulted it the wiring harness being burned up. Repairing the wiring and replacing the board had it running for at least a year but a few weeks ago the furnace quit and I found that a delayed reaction with moisture had damaged the circuit board in the Honeywell Smart Gas Valve. I replaced the gas valve and everything was back to working as normal. Me and GB had pumped out her basement several years ago and replaced the sump pump, check valve and pipes. The later flood happened due to a power outage during a heavy rain. Now I'm checking into a backup sump pump solution for her. I'm going to take care of the elderly customers as best I can because some jerk is going to show up and rip them off. My late friend GB and me helped out a lot of older folks and last week I was over at his 78 year old sister's place fixing her tankless water heater. Now I have to put together a kit to clean tankless water heaters. ^_^

TDD