New gas furnace/AC recommendations?

Legitmate contractors will not install *ANY* equipment that the customer has purchased off the internet for 2 reasons.....

I charge what I do, because thats what it takes to keep my companys doors open, and still make a small profit after all of the costs, expenses, salaries, and taxes are paid. Here's a hint..... "The bitter taste of a poor quality installation will linger far longer than the initial sweetness of a low price."

The finest equipment in the world is worthless if installed improperly. I'm sure you've come across heartbreaking installations of expensive systems that some hack put in and you have to break the bad news to a very nice customer.

TDD

The especially bad (dangerous) ones, I take pics of and forward to the city code enforcement and/or county planners office, and the state fire marshal.

I was at a deposition last week where the defendants attorney was quizzing me about my training and where I got it. Nobody can supply the training I've had. I started out repairing window units in the early 1970's and self taught from there. My friends with all the wallpaper come to me and ask me about this and that because I've usually seen it. "Experience is a fools best teacher." Emerson. :-)

TDD

Steve used improper usenet style by unnecessarily full-quoting:

Where exactly is that written? Nice to see how you try to spread FUD over this.

The manufacturer has no way to know exactly how a given furnace was purchased, and it doesn't matter in any way, shape or form how a new-in-box furnace makes it's way through the wholesale-retail chain to the customer's basement.

Once there, installation by a "professional" contractor should satisfy all the critera for the factory warranty.

The customer would not ask the contractor to assume any liability for the equipment, only for the proper installation of said equipment, which should be totally acceptible to you since you are installing perfectly good equipment, perhaps exactly the same equipment that you sell to other customers.

Your cost structure is your problem.

It must be emarassing to you when a customer finds out how much you over-charge him for the same furnace that he can buy himself from these various vendors.

I'm separating purchase of the equipment from it's installation.

There is no rational argument that you can make against a home-owner sourcing and purchasing the furnace for himself, and then contracting you or some other HVAC company to install it.

Because at the end of the day, that's all you guys really do - installation. You don't make the furnace, it just passes through your hands on the way from the factory to the customer. So don't give us any bull-crap that the customer *has to* buy it from you. That's a very unprofessional way to operate.

The Daring Dufas used poor usenet style by improperly full-quoting:

You totally missed the point.

What's wrong with the customer buying a new furnace through one of those national retailers / wholesalers, and then contracting a local HVAC company to install it?

How would that result in improper installation?

The customer would save the 50%+ markup charged by the local HVAC company for the furnace.

How about 'the warranty states that if installation is not done by a RECOGNISED contractor, there IS NO WARRANTY.' And no contractor who is 'recognised' ( IE set up and registered as a factory-authorized dealer or warranty contractor ) by a given brand is going to TOUCH your self-bought equipment.

Now, sure, Pedro's Heating and Air will be glad to put it in for you. When you try a warranty claim, you will find that you have no warranty.

When you buy something at Best Buy, and it's defective, do you expect Best Buy to stand behind it ? They didnt' make it, you know.

You idiot.

Asshole - you really think you get 'wholesale price' like that ? Yeh, you probably think if a car dealership sells you a car at '$ 100 below invoice', they lost money on the deal. after all, they showed you on the invoice 'what they paid for it', right ?

Anyone who is actualy in the business laughs out loud at the 'Internet wholesale' prices for any parts or equipment. It's double what they pay at the local supply house.

Post a link to an example warranty, where it states exactly that.

So if you are a recognized seller and installer of Trane, and if I buy a new Trane furnace on my own, how can you say that you're not "authorized" to install it?

Pedro will handle the warranty work for me, because he wants the business.

Pedro will handle the warranty work for me, because he wants the business.

Besides, I thought these new furnaces were sooooo much more reliable than my POS 36 year-old furnace - right?

After all, according to you blow-hardts, these new furnaces with their electronics sensors and ECM motors are bullet-proof - right?

Looks like I touched a nerve with all you HVAC installer crooks.

I found the "wholesale" prices to be very amusing. :-)

TDD

No HVAC company will guarantee any equipment they don't supply. Me and my friends have installed used or new equipment supplied by a customer, usually commercial, with the explicit understand that nothing is under any warranty. You're not going to get any high end name brand equipment unless you go through an authorized dealer. If you do, the manufacturer is going to take action against whoever supplied the equipment when they find out. Your savings are an illusion.

TDD

Sometimes that is true.

HOWEVER - I find quite often I could buy stuff over the internet for less than I pay my wholesale suppliers. Sometimes significantly less - but being "grey market" there is no support and often no accessible warranty.

Then it's not really apples-to-apples.

Dunno... I took an A/C compressor I bought off the net to my local Chevrolet dealership. The service department was happy to install it, vacuum the system, and recharge everthing. Doing so converted a $700 job to a $250 one.

That was four years ago. The A/C still works swell.

You hang with the wrong crowd. My son has a Guatamalan neighbor. The neighbor works for an A/C contractor and moonlights on the side. The neighbor, in turn, knows a fellow countryman who makes a market in used equipment.

So, after Hurricane Yikes destroyed my condensing unit, I told my son, who visited with his neighbor, and two nights later I had a two-year old, two-and-a-half ton, condensing unit installed, charged, and working admirably for seven hundred bucks.

As to "guarantees," my son's neighbor knows I know where he lives and he also knows I carry a gun.

Yeh, and someone else two blocks over was missing theirs :-)

So, who wants high end name brand eqt? I've had 36 years of experience with Ruud and all I've had fail is one AC compressor. I replaced just the compressor, not the whole condenser. And I installed a hard-start kit on my current system that is still running after 26 years. Consumer Reports survey had Ruud/Rheem as lower incidents of repairs than Trane or Carrier, though they said statistically the differences were not meaningful. And you can buy Rheem/Ruud online.

Not saying that I would do that or advise doing it, just that it can be done.

Same situation with buyng a furnace on the internet.

Identical product, significant price reduction, bur lotsa gotchas.

What about shipping charges? Some of that stuff is quite heavy. I've looked into buying some items over the net but the shipping eats up any savings in purchase price.

TDD

If you can work on your own stuff, go for it. I do more repair than replace myself. A lot of HVAC companies will replace a whole condensing unit rather than the blown compressor because it's easier and they make the same profit quicker. I had an old fellow I know call me when another company came out to his house and told him his old Carrier condensing unit had to be replaced. The only thing wrong was a burned out condenser fan motor. The fan motor was a two speed which slowed down at night when the outside temperature dropped making the unit very quiet. There was also a sound insulating cover over the compressor. It was the most expensive unit produced by Carrier when he bought it years before and it was very well made. It had stainless steel hardware and there was no rust on it anywhere. It had a factory sight glass and liquid line dryer. It had an anti short cycle timer and both high and low pressure switches tied into the control circuitry to protect the compressor. I told the fellow not to let anyone tell him he needed a new unit when that one could be repaired because it was built better than most of the new units I'd seen. Simple maintenance can keep an HVAC system running trouble free for a long time, especially if it was properly installed and setup.

TDD