I see that the latest NEC revisions prescribe that AFCI breakers are to
be used not merely for bedroom circuits but for just about every living
space -- OK, I guess.
But I see that it is now a violation to have a duplex outlet on a
GFCI-protected circuit for a single prescribed appliance, e.g.,
refrigerator, sump pump; why on earth...? (Someone suggested --
humorously, I guess -- that it was to sell more outlets and to make more
[paid] work for electricians, who would then have to install additional
circuits and outlets.)
On 01/23/2015 09:27 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
My guess is that a "false trip" for a critical item such as a
refrigerator or sump-pump would be deemed to be worse than the very
small risk of shock hazard.
Elsewhere however, not a bad safety precaution.
They should also put a label on them:
Not to be used under water.
But it doesn't say (at least not according to the summary I was reading)
that it is a violation to have *additional* outlets on one of those
I know that existing installations do not have to be brought into
compliance with the new NEC at every change, but out of curiosity: both
our sump pump itself *and* the charger for the battery-powered backup
sump pump are plugged into a GFCI-protected duplex outlet; would that be
considered a violation of the new rule?
I haven't actually seen the new wording but if have additional outlets
on the circuit then it wouldn't be a dedicated circuit as prescribed...
That seems excessive and wouldn't say that's it w/o actually seeing the
But does it have to be a *dedicated* circuit? Only one appliance per
GFCI breaker? IF (big "if", as I haven't seen the Code itself, and IAC I
am not one of the priesthood authorized to interpret it) it merely says
that a refrigerator has to be on a GFCI-protected circuit, can the
kitchen refrigerator, the bar refrigerator, and the freezer in the
garage all be on that same GFCI-protected circuit?
That does not sound like a smart combination. I hope you just used that
as an example. Garage circuits are on a GFCI anyway. Refrigerators and
freezers should be as isolated as possible from a practical point, but
if I had them on a circuit easily tripped, I'd want a night lite or
something that would let me know the circuit is out.
I cannot imagine having to pull out a fridge to reset the GFCI tripped
by some other source such as a power surge.
Why "pull out" a fridge? I'm talking about a common circuit protected by
a GFCI *breaker*, not a GFCI outlet *behind* the freezer or fridge.
Are you suggested that every refrigerator and freezer should be on its
It is in my house and yes, it is located behind the fridge. My house is
34 years old so it is not GFCI.
My second fridge and freezer do not have individual circuits, but both
are not on the same one so little chance they would start at the same
time and cause an overload. They do take small loads running these days
though, just that startup may be more.
It can be protected by a GFCI that is upstream, but I don't think it is
good practice to have it on the same circuit as an electric fry pan,
toaster, and coffee maker. *ersonally, I don't see the need to have a
GFCI on a refrigerator but there may be some statistics that show
otherwise. I wonder how many service techs get clled out and all that
is needed is a reset.
I have a receptacle on the deck that of course is downstream from a
GFCI. It is located in the bathroom downstairs though.
*As far as I know it is not a code violation to have a dedicated GFI circu
it for an appliance. Doesn't matter if the outlet is single or duplex. If
it is a 20 amp circuit and there will only be one single receptacle, then t
hat single receptacle must be rated for 20 amps. Do you have a code referen
ce article number for what you read?
There are no longer any exceptions for GFI protection. I responded in anot
her newsgroup about the ceiling outlet in a garage that normally powers the
garage door opener. That is required to have GFI protection as well as th
e other outlets in the garage. If the refrigerator is within six feet of t
he kitchen sink it must have GFI protection. Any outlets in the unfinished
part of a basement must have GFI protection.
On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 11:21:30 AM UTC-5, John G wrote:
cuit for an appliance. Doesn't matter if the outlet is single or duplex. I
f it is a 20 amp circuit and there will only be one single receptacle, then
that single receptacle must be rated for 20 amps. Do you have a code refer
ence article number for what you read?
other newsgroup about the ceiling outlet in a garage that normally powers t
he garage door opener. That is required to have GFI protection as well as
the other outlets in the garage. If the refrigerator is within six feet of
the kitchen sink it must have GFI protection. Any outlets in the unfinish
ed part of a basement must have GFI protection.
Maybe Perce can provide a link to what he's reading about this new code?
On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 10:21:30 AM UTC-6, John G wrote:
If the refrigerator is within six feet of the kitchen sink it must have GFI protection.
...and what if a refrigerator is more than 6 feet but has an icemaker plumbed?
On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 11:48:07 AM UTC-5, bob_villa wrote:
*An icemaker is not a consideration for the 6' rule. Over six feet it is u
sually not possible for a human to touch the refigerator and the sink at th
e same time. This is why dishwashers are now required to be GFI protected.
You can easily touch a dishwasher and the sink at the same time in many c
The electronic components that control appliances can break down over time
and leak small amounts of current that won't trip a regular circuit breaker
On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 10:27:57 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
You need to cite that. I am not sure which rule you might be talking
The only one of those I have seen as being interpreted that way is the
15a receptacle behind a refrigerator in the kitchen and that is
because it is *not* required to be GFCI and not a 20a like the rest of
the circuits in a kitchen. Some jurisdictions say if it is only for
the fridge, it should be a single receptacle with no other outlets.
The flaw in that logic is you can have more than one piece of
"refrigeration equipment". (maybe a wine cooler next to the fridge or
a fridge and a freezer)
If it is not in the kitchen the fridge can be on any circuit
available. If it is a place requiring GFCI, it needs to be a GFCI.
Back when there were exceptions for things that did not need to be on
a GFCI in those areas, some inspectors wanted a single but the
exceptions are pretty much gone now.
As for AFCI, that has been expanded beyond the bedrooms for 15 years.
On 01/23/2015 11:41 AM, email@example.com wrote:
I was not reading the code itself: I was reading a _Codes for
Homeowners_ (or some such title) book that I picked up and skimmed while
I waited for assistance at one of the local Home Improvement stores. No
"chapter and verse" were cited.
Kitchen circuits have to be 20A? And with 20A outlets, or still with
only 15A outlets but with wiring and breakers for 20A?
> Some jurisdictions say if it is only for
The book only claimed to include the latest revisions, not to be listing
only the latest revisions; I did not word my first paragraph carefully
enough. Our house was built before there were such things as AFCI
breakers (as far as I know), but I did substitute an AFCI breaker for
the original on the bedroom circuits a while back.
On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 08:21:26 -0800 (PST), John G
My copy of 210.8(A)(1) says "Sinks located in areas other than
kitchens where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the
outside edge of the sink."
What you say is true in the laundry or adjacent to a wet bar sink, but
not the refrigeration outlet in the kitchen. That is the reason why
*some* AHJs want it to be a single.
On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 12:25:37 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
Those books are notoriously inaccurate and usually do not even cite
which code cycle they are talking about
As long as you have more than one receptacle on the circuit, it is
legal to use 15a receptacles on a 20. A duplex is two for the purposes
of this rule. All kitchen receptacles except the one for the
refrigeration equipment have to be on 20a "small appliance" circuits
that can only serve the "kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room,
or similar area". (minimum of 2)
AFCIs originally showed up in the 99 code with deferred implementation
until 2002 (mostly because when they went to print the AFCI was not
available). Originally it was just bedrooms. By 2008 it was expanded
to "family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries,
dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or
similar rooms or areas" and they started recognizing the newer
versions of the AFCI that actually do what was promised in 1999.
Too bad if you paid a lot of money for the earlier, ineffective ones
at the point of a government gun. ;-)
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