On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 4:41:03 PM UTC-5, email@example.com wrote:
I didn't say all things were honky dory, just that we've had many years
with good, booming economies over the last 35 years.
Which makes sense for production workers. With automation we make a lot
more products with less people than ever. And you're looking at only one
side of that. There are a lot of people employed now as skilled techs,
installing, maintaining that eqpt. Also designing and building the robots
and automation. Those jobs pay more than putting an item in a box or
putting a nut on a bolt. And even in this sector, the production workers,
real wages have been rising steadily for 20 years.
You're confusing the middle class with the rich. $88K to $160K
include the more skilled people I cited above. It's what you'd
expect as an economy evolves. What's your solution?
Don't you think it rather unfair to take 2007 to 2014 and attribute it
to OBama, when we had the worst recession since the Great Depression
in the early part of that period?
They decided they wanted a ultra rich guy who benefited more than anyone
on your chart to be president, because they believed his simple rhetoric,
that he was gonna fix Chynna and bring all the jobs back and make Mexico
pay for the wall?
On Tue, 30 Jan 2018 07:31:43 -0800 (PST), trader_4
But they still have not caught up to where they were when Carter took
office and nowhere near where they were in the Nixon administration.
This is the complaint I have with what people call "middle class'
Middle of WHAT? Middle of the top 10%?
Most people are not going to be systems analysts, managers and stock
brokers. In fact those jobs are shrinking too. The first people who
got laid off at IBM were systems analysts and managers and that was 25
For the workers, the crash happened in 2007. Any builder with their
head a quarter inch out of their ass stopped building spec houses
4q2006. My wife was laid off in 2007 and was not building houses 6
months before that.
That chart was the RECOVERY from that crash. It was supposed to be
when you would expect things to improve. The reality is the recovery
was really only recovering the situation of the rich. You can just
look at where the trillions of Obama dollars went. They made investors
whole, they bailed out bankers and wall street but they did very
little for the working guy.
He said things that sounded better to them than the tired old rhetoric
they were hearing from Clinton. Trump has actually tried to fulfill
his promises more than any other candidate I can remember. Whether
that is good or bad will depend on your politics. I think some of the
things Trump promised are naive and others are stupid but at least he
is trying to do them. That is refreshing for a lot of people who are
tired of campaign promises that get forgotten on January 21.
I have said before, I did not vote for Trump. I knew he was going to
get his ass kicked when he got to DC. They hate outsiders there.
On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 12:12:59 PM UTC-5, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I'm not sure they can ever "catch up". It's a dynamic economy and there
is less demand for manual labor than there was in the 60s. People painted
cars and put nuts on wheels. Robots do it now. Both were middle class.
The robot maintenance workers aren't in your production line worker data.
Also, I'd suspect that there is another big thing missing from that chart
and that's benefits. If health benefits are not included, it's very misleading.
The cost of health insurance has skyrocketed and many of those companies
are paying it. A Ford worker in 1965 was cheap to insure. A worker today
isn't. So while it doesn't show up in takehome pay, it's a big factor and
those workers are paid more than what you see in wages.
Most people would agree that middle class is a family earning maybe 50K to
150K or more. And again, that the economy is evolving from one where we
needed people to turn nuts to one where we need tech workers, can't be
denied. What do you want? Wage controls? Increase the min wage to $20
an hour? When that's been proposed, the conservatives go nuts.
And, BTW, for someone who's so concerned about the fact that the rich have
benefitted far more than Joe Sixpack, why is it that you think Trump giving
them and himself a tax cut is a great idea? You defend that. Why do these
people who are rich and have benefitted so much more over the last decades,
get a tax cut? A cut that increases the national debt and puts that burden
on future workers? And according to you, also presents the imminent demise
of the whole country? MAkes no sense to me.
The recession officially ended in 2009, so you're chart only shows the
first 5 tough years after the recession.
The reality is the recovery
That's certainly not true at all.
they bailed out bankers and wall street but they did very
They did very little for the working guy? I guess you think it would have
been better to have the govt do nothing or mishandle it and have another
Great Depression. Workers benefitted by the disaster being halted and
reversed. It would have been many times worse. And all that bailout
money, the TARP was REPAID. If that's a bailout, it's certainly the right
The same old Trump is just hated because he's an outsider. The fact is
Trump is hated because of what he is, what he has said, that he has no
common human decency. And that started before he even ran. Being a
big lying birther, for example. Lying that he had sent investigators
to HI, that we'd be amazed by what they had found, promising it shortly,
producing NOTHING and refusing to apologize. Then he wonders why people
say he's a racist. Or the nasty campaign announcement speech, where
he smeared Mexicans as a bunch of rapists and drug runners. The remarks
about McCain that came in the first month. No, it's not about his outsider
status, it's about him being a totally unfit jerk. You apparently can get
past that and if he does a few good things, it's all worth it. I won't
sell my soul and I believe he will be the end of conservatism and the GOP
for a long time to come. He's not the savior, he's the clown playing the
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