looking for "soft start", low power surge, sump pump

[clare]

If it is a "dedicated circuit" no GFCI is required. Mount the outlet on the ceiling above the pump - single twist-lock outlet - and you are golden for code.

[bob haller]

I have seen a ton of homes with sump pumps, now thats a good thing.....

HOWEVER most of those homes were above street level.

so the owner could just use a gravity drain to daylight. although some digging will be necessary. but gravity tends to be highly reliable.

even if its just a overflow gravity drain to daylight, that a awesome thing. in a power failure or pump failure no flooding can occur

[danny burstein]

Basement floor is poured concrete roughly 6 feet below grade. The sump pit is roughly three feet further (farther?) down..

[bob haller]

so is the street below the level of the basement? a overflow drain doesnt have to be below the bottomof the pit

[trader_4]

Wrong, at least here in the USA. Current NEC requires a GFCI for all receptacles in an unfinished basement. But then you have me blocked so you'll likely never learn. And if you believe otherwise, give us the NEC reference that says so.

[hubops]

I wonder what defines finished / unfinished ? .. and what that has to do with justifying the rule ? John T.

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[hrhofmann]

To reduce the number of times the fully submersible or the pedestal pumps r un, you need to adjust the float levels so the pumps do not start to run un til the water level is about 5 - 12 inches below the top of the floor. Whe n the pump does run with the float adjusted that way, it will run for a lon ger time, but the number of starts will be reduced, and the starting strain is usually what all sump pumps ultimately die from.

Unfortunately, it is not IF a pump will fail, but WHEN it will fail.

We have been in our house for exactly 50 years, and learned this the hard w ay. I now have two submersible pumps, with the floats set for two differen t levels, and, in case of a power failure, a water-powered pump set to turn on just before the water gets to the height of the lowest place in our bas ement which happens to be right next to the sump hole. Separate discharge/ drain lines for all three pumps and reverse flow valves in each discharge l ine to keep any critters out that might choose to go up the pipes looking f or a hospitable home.

I periodically remove power to the first pump and check to see that the sec ond pump kicks on ok. It takes too long to wait for the water level to reac h the trigger level of the water-powered pump, so that one requires me to m anually lift the float to start it running. But, we now can put things in the basement without worrying about flooding. It will now take a power fa ilure combined with a total loss of our municipal water supply and a failur e of all three pumps and the discharge piping before we have a wet basement again.

[trader_4]

IDK how they have it defined, or if they have it defined. But I think the intention is that if it's unfinished, it's essentially an open space, cement floor, where one may be using it to work on stuff, standing on the damp floor, using a shop vac to vacuum up water, using a power drill, etc. Similar to a garage or outdoors. If it's finished, then it's more like a regular living space.

[dpb]

On 03/31/2016 9:12 AM, [e-mail] wrote: ...

"I know it when I see it..." :)

...

I think it's that it's presumed finished living space will be dry whereas unfinished is presumed will be slab floor and quite possibly damp such that is better chance of grounding path in case of accidental contact.

Being an old fogey, I personally think the Code in general has become a tool for the manufacturers to force new, more profitable product lines into wider acceptance thus enhancing their bottom lines more than it is of actual enhancements to safety or fire prevention.

[trader_4]

run, you need to adjust the float levels so the pumps do not start to run until the water level is about 5 - 12 inches below the top of the floor. W hen the pump does run with the float adjusted that way, it will run for a l onger time, but the number of starts will be reduced, and the starting stra in is usually what all sump pumps ultimately die from.

way. I now have two submersible pumps, with the floats set for two differ ent levels, and, in case of a power failure, a water-powered pump set to tu rn on just before the water gets to the height of the lowest place in our b asement which happens to be right next to the sump hole. Separate discharg e/drain lines for all three pumps and reverse flow valves in each discharge line to keep any critters out that might choose to go up the pipes looking for a hospitable home.

econd pump kicks on ok. It takes too long to wait for the water level to re ach the trigger level of the water-powered pump, so that one requires me to manually lift the float to start it running. But, we now can put things in the basement without worrying about flooding. It will now take a power failure combined with a total loss of our municipal water supply and a fail ure of all >three pumps and the discharge piping before we have a wet basem ent again.

That's one of my beefs with condensate pumps for furnace/AC. They only hold a very limited amount of water and probably a pint is enough to cycle it. I had to replace the switch in a Little Giant that was only two years old. Another problem is that many sump pumps, you can't adjust the turn on/off. Looking for one that you can would be a good idea before buying.

[dpb]

On 03/31/2016 10:15 AM, trader_4 wrote: ...

Hmmm, seems like it'd not be too difficult to increase the capacity (at the expense of more footprint space, of course).

The one here was 30+ YO and still functional when we replaced system a couple of years ago. Put in new one just on general principles so the cycling hasn't seemed to be an issue; just luck of the draw on "infant" mortality it would appear.

[Ed Pawlowski]

You're just cynical. Everyone knows it is to save the lives of children. I'm a few months older than the official "baby boomer" generation. Present generation is the "pansy, but safe", generation.

Gotta go. Have to lock up the aspirin and chain the cabinet under the sink closed in case the grandkids visit.

[danny burstein]

That was one of the features I _loved_ about the "drop in" Flotek brand unit we were using.

The base was resting on the bottom, under water, with the impeller inside. There's a (numbers very rough) four foot pedestle sticking up, with the motor on top.

The motor turned a rod which extended down to the impeller, thus the motor was always above the water.

Anyway, the "on/off" switch was courtesy of a "float" which hung down vertically from the motor head and slid through some rings. There were clips on that rod which you could set so that the "up/down" movement between "on/off" could vary anywhere from an inch or so to about a foot and a half.

Simple to adjust with clear visibility...

[makolber]

The republicans are for big buisness The democrates are for big government

Passing more regulations that require us to by more stuff is one of the few things they both agree on.

M

[trader_4]

The Dems are for big business too. Are Dems opposed to all the farm subsidies? Opposed to helping one big business over another, eg green energy, ethanol mandates? CO2 mandates? Hillary has taken plenty of money from big business, wall street being one prime example. Hard to believe they are supporting her if she's not going to be on their side. And to be fair, the GOP has been for big govt too. They tend to let it grow little by little, over time with pork barrel money, bigger budgets, etc, where the Dems like big new programs and takeovers eg Obamacare.

[dpb]

...

The NEC Code is _NOT_ government-sponsored nor supported nor written--it's output by the NFPA a nonprofit.

[twitium]

Sump pumps of the same horsepower can have much different current draws.

For example, according to the documentation, the popular 1/3 hp Zoeller M53 uses 9.7 amps running and 25.9 amps starting. Where the Little Giant 6EN-C IA-SFS Model 506630 1/3 hp (with a PSC motor) uses 6 amps running and, I be lieve, approx. 12 amps starting. They are comparable in the GPMs they pump

-- actually the Little Giant claims better.

I recently installed that Little Giant and have been pleased with its perfo rmance. I wanted a low current draw in case I needed to run off a small gen erator or battery-with-inverter. Little Giant recently released the 6EC ver sion which has an even more efficient motor which uses 5 amps vs the 6EN se ries' 6 amps running.