Load capacity of 200-amp panel

On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 4:34:01 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:

So that would be the maximum time spent above the 200 amp line. But I stil l would like a better answer as to how far past I can go before I start tri pping the main. In earlier posts I read that only after a sustained amp d raw of 3 hours would it trip. If this is true then I shouldnt be anywhere close to having a problem if I am only

r more? I understand what I am asking is pushing the rules, but would like a reasonable idea of how far past I can go. I want to purchase one more be d and if that puts me at 210-220 amps for 20 mins at a time, just want to k now that I can do that without tripping my main etc.






+1 to all that.
The OP is right at 200A with the existing 5 beds. The dryer makes it 216A. Five beds, 200A, the beds are 40A each, so how can they add a couple of new beds? Even one puts it at 240A/256A. And in line with what you're saying about warming up, once tripped, if it's reset, it's going to trip faster the next time. Doesn't sound good with a business with 6 customers.
Side note, I'm having a hard time figuring out where all this power is going. That's 10KW for one bed. I've never been in one, but I thought they put out UV, not a lot of heat. 10KW sounds like enough power to start cooking you, similar power to a home oven.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net says...

They are cooking you. If the beds are commercial units they can use from 10 to about 20 KW. The time is about 5 to 15 minutes depending on how much you want to tan.
I have not been in one either, just going by the specifications of them.
It does not mater if it is UV light or just heating units all of the power will be converted to heat. Not sure how much the person will carry out with them.
If the beds are that big he probably also needs to up the air conditioner by about another ton.
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On 06/26/2016 02:08 PM, snipped-for-privacy@adelphia.net wrote:

Maybe you could get a few more watts out of your panel if you installed some PC case fans to cool the breakers?
/sarcasm
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On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 2:23:10 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:

Wire properly sized presents no risk, so IDK what the alleged problem with wire heating is when the draw is within the 200A rating, there is considerable margin. And resistance is resistance, so a bad connection with resistance X is going to create the same heat with 196A flowing through it on a 400A service as it will on a 200A.
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On Thursday, October 22, 2009 at 9:02:51 AM UTC-7, JayB wrote:

If you apply 240-Volt to the load and have 200 Amps current, you've got 48 KVA. If you apply 120-volt and have a 200 amps, you've got 24 KVA. If you connect 200 Amps load to each of 120-volt leg, you've got 48 KVA total.
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On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 13:35:20 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

In other words, if you balance the load and use only 120 volt loads, you can run a maximum of 400 amps. If you run only 240 volt loads, you can only run 200 amps
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On 10/31/2016 8:00 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Technically, yes, but 80% max is recommended
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That is just a guideline for some individual loads and a rule for others. When you do the load calc for the whole service, you can install based on 100% of the result if you are being cheap. The NEC is not a design manual, it is just a minimum standard.
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On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 20:00:11 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

And oftentimes the pole transformer is not capable of 48KVA. Most of them have their KVA rating painted right on the exterior of them. (You may need binoculars to read it from the ground).
And dont forget that they often supply power to other homes and/or buildings as well.
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On Wed, 02 Nov 2016 16:05:10 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@unlisted.moo wrote:

Transformers supplying multiple homes MAY not be capable of supplying the full load of all the houses at once. Any single residence transformer WILL be sized to handle the full load - at least in Ontario.
I was unable to install a 200 amp sewrvice in my home because the transformer feed/undeground cable was lot large enough. I was limitted to 125 amps.
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On Wed, 02 Nov 2016 19:06:38 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

That is certainly not true in the US. They will feed 3 houses from a 50 KVA unit and assume it will handle spikes above the 50 KVA. My house os one of 3 on a 37 KVA unit. The guys told me, they will replace it with a 50 when we burn it up. These houses have 200a panels but they are fed with 2ga 1350 alloy aluminum overhead service conductors. Voltage drop has not been a problem here for me. I still get 124 or so
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On Monday, October 31, 2016 at 8:00:09 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

In reality there is never more than 200 amps of current flowing in a 200A service. If it's a balanced load, the same 200A is flowing through half the 120V loads, then on through the other half of the 120V loads. There is never more than 200A flowing in the service conductors. You can support 400A worth of 120V loads, but it's just 200A being counted twice.
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On 10/31/2016 03:35 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

And no 400A anywhere.
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Okay I own a tanning salon. I currently have a 200amp box. All the beds ru n on 230.
Is it ever possible in any way to run 225 amps of beds at the same time? Ca n I put a bigger main breaker box for example? I just need a smidge more a mps and cant really afford or justify changing the entire service over 20-2 5 more amps. At most I would only be at that 225 max amp draw for 15 mins a t a time etc.
Current Bed configuration:
Bed #1 = 20amp draw Bed #2 = 20amp draw Bed #3 = 55amp draw Bed #4 = 55amp draw Bed #5 = 20amp draw Bed #6 = 20amp draw ----------------------------- Current total amp draw from beds = 190 amp draw
Everything works fine with this configuration but I want to REMOVE a 20amp draw bed and replace it with a 55amp draw bed, which will make the new amp draw 225amps at any point where all 6 beds happen to be turned on at the sa me time. Just find it hard to believe that my only option would be to have the city re run a total new service over 25 amps.
Can this be done and if so can it be done safely?
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On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 10:23:53 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@adelphia.net wrote :

run on 230.

Can I put a bigger main breaker box for example? I just need a smidge more amps and cant really afford or justify changing the entire service over 20 -25 more amps. At most I would only be at that 225 max amp draw for 15 mins at a time etc.

p draw bed and replace it with a 55amp draw bed, which will make the new am p draw 225amps at any point where all 6 beds happen to be turned on at the same time. Just find it hard to believe that my only option would be to hav e the city re run a total new service over 25 amps.

You can't put 5 1/2 gallons of crap into a 5 gallon pail. Why is it so hard to believe that when you've reached the service capacity limit, you've reached the limit? You need a bigger main breaker, probably a new panel too, unless it's rated for over 200A, and a utility service that's greater than 200A, whatever your choice is for how much larger you want to go.
However, are you sure you're really pulling what you posted? IDK where those draws you posted came from. Are they measured or from the eqpt labels? If it's labels, it's possible the actual draw is somewhat less, as the label would be worst case, startup, etc. If so, you might squeak by with the current 200A service, assuming all the beds don't turn on at the same time, hit their peak reqt number at the same time, etc. You could measure what is actually being used and see.
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On 1/29/2017 10:23 AM, snipped-for-privacy@adelphia.net wrote:

I find it hard to believe too. The city does not do that stuff, the electric company does. Or you do, depending on what has to be replaced.
If you don't want to upgrade, there are work-arounds. the first step is to check your fire insurance coverage. Get business interruption insurance too. Check fire exits for the safety of your customers running out from those beds too. Tell them to keep a robe at hand in case of evacuation. Oh, unless you have a stand alone building check what liability you have if the neighbors burn too.
Can you put in a bigger main breaker? That is determined by the wire size feeding the panel and the rating of the panel.
You really need an evaluation by an electrician to see what real draw is and what potential you have.
I find it a bit surprising that people still expose themselves to potential side affects from tanning. Do you refer the customers to a cancer doctor for their melanoma?
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On 01/29/2017 11:31 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I believe the whole "sun exposure causes melanoma" is junk science and that skin cancer is actually caused by eating refined carbohydrate junk foods.
FWIW, I find it a bit surprising that people still expose themselves to potential side affects from eating wheat and sugar.
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On 1/29/2017 12:40 PM, joe wrote:

Well thank for letting us know. If the doctor has any questions I'll just have him contact Joe on the internet for the facts.
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On 1/29/2017 1:25 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Correlation is not causation but remote tribes of people who don't eat the standard American diet and live out in the sun are the healthiest people on the planet.
And while you're at it, have your pharmaceutical-pushin doctor read this:
www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-paradox-high-fat-lower-heart-disease-and-cancer/
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That depends - in some areas the city IS the power company. (or at least owns it)

In commercial buildings often the feed can handle a much larger panel - and occaisionally a panel can handle a bigger breaker - but you cannot legally install a larger breaker than the panel is rated for, even if it will physically fit.

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