knob and tube

[Zippy the Wonder Turtle]

How dangerous is it to have old knob and tube wiring in your home?

Kenan

[bzguttman]

very dangerous.

[RBM]

Like any type of wiring in a home, it depends upon it's condition and what it's being used for. If it's an original installation, that hasn't been modified over the years, and is only used for lamps and such, it is probably fine

[jmeehan]

It apparently has served for a long time without failing.

Actually it is a very good system, but it is not as good, in many ways, as the current system. The main problem is any that is still in service is very old. Some parts of the system may be suffering from age. It is not likely that it has the capacity for typical current needs. It is also true that few people have any experience with it so maintenance is a problem.

In short, I would advice replacing it anytime you have access to do so. I recommend replacing all parts of any circuit at the same time. if someone sees one part modern, they may assume the rest is modern and that could be very bad.

As I recall, you can leave it as is if it is not touched, but you can't make changes to it other than to eliminate it.

I once faced this about 40 years ago in my own home, and I replaced it all. Some of the wires likely are still there, but they are no longer connected.

[Pete C.]

K&T wiring if it's intact as noted and not over fused is physically safe. Unfortunately most K&T installations are not intact, and have been over fused, so your insurance company will typically panic at the mere mention of K&T. Considering the limitations of K&T for supporting modern energy intensive living and the insurance hassles, it's best to replace the K&T.

[Claude Hopper]

This wiring was installed between 1880 and the 1930's. It is more than likely that it is inadequate in any application today. Refrigerators were just coming into use after 1915 to 1930. There were few other appliances besides lights, radios and fans. Many people were still using 'ice boxes' when this stuff was used. Hopefully you have a new supply and electrical panel and additional wiring for washers, dryers, water heaters, air conditioners and such. Trouble is the old knob and tube insulation and splicing tape are beyond their life, brittle and falling apart. Upgrade it when you can.

[Steve Barker DLT]

Not dangerous at all if it's original, not messed with and still has the proper fusing in place.

Actually a very good system if left alone.

s

[Phisherman]

Your insurance company will know.

[Claude Hopper]

Most insurance companies are jack asses.

[hallerb]

insurance companies track carefully causes of claims, both primary and secondary.

primary K&T has a failure and causes fire directly.

secondary aunt mary visiting trips over a extension cord strung across middle of room, to overcome just one outlet iun the entire room.......

trips falls breaks hip and dies. now theres a killer claim

[hallerb]

incidently aunt mary ends up spending 5 years in a nursing home before finally dying

60 grand a year, $300,000 just for nursing home.

the K&T ends up costing the insurance company 3 million dollars.....

policy cost 400 bucks

so do you still wonder why insurance doesnt want K&T

[Claude Hopper]

Jewish lightening causes more fires than K & T.

[hallerb]

link please:)

[J. Clarke]

What is "Jewish lightening", the Mossad workout?

[hallerb]

i wondered what it was too...........

[Steve Barker DLT]

better yet, how about a link showing where K&T DID cause a fire at all.

s

[bud--]

. I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here say K&T is ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation deterioration on k&t except maybe above a light that pumps heat it the j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures).

A couple links on K&T (originally posted by Phil Munro) are:

is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.)

or

the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".

(Compare with =93Your insurance company will know.=94)

IMHO insurance treatment of K&T houses is merely the latest redlining. .

Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe.

-- bud--

[RBM]

. I believe all the electricians that have written on the subject here say K&T is ok if it has not been abused. I have not seen insulation deterioration on k&t except maybe above a light that pumps heat it the j-box and kills any insulation (like the old circline fixtures).

A couple links on K&T (originally posted by Phil Munro) are:

is a report to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Community Affairs on adding building insulation around existing K&T wiring. No record of hazard was found in the large number of K&T installations that had insulation added around them. (Larry Seekon, whose comments are quoted was head electrical inspector in Minneapolis.)

or

the record of a complaint to the Maine state Bureau of Insurance by a homeowner against an insurance company. The insurance company denied renewal of a policy based on K&T wiring. The insurance company was ordered to renew the policy because the insurance company "provided no justification for its position that knob and tube wiring per se automatically provides grounds for nonrenewal".

(Compare with ?Your insurance company will know.?)

IMHO insurance treatment of K&T houses is merely the latest redlining. .

Not having enough outlets is not an argument for replacing K&T. My house, as built, did not have enough outlets by current standards and it was wired in rigid pipe.

-- bud--

Obviously, none of the insurance companies have read Hallerb

[hallerb]

not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires etc.......

the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues

[RBM]

not having enough outlets is a known hazard, from tripping, fires etc.......

the reason for outlets every 6 feet are these issues

and for your edification, outlets are not placed "every 6 feet". You really ought to get a code book, or stop spewing your ignorance