I'm allergic to bullshit. o Particularly from people who are afraid of doing the job themselves.
Hence, they have absolutely zero idea of what they're talking about. o IMHO, they're all just like grade schoolers discussing Santa Claus, Ed.
Do you remember when Normal Schwarzkopf responded to a news reporter: "Have you ever _been_ in a minefield?" REFERENCE:
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Some things, like changing tires at home, people are either afraid, or ill informed, or they don't have the money for tools, or for storage, or they don't want to get their hands dirty, or whatever, so they make up all sorts of lame idiotic excuses for why they can't do something as trivial as replace a tire at home.
The real answer is that everything they say is just pure bullshit o Because they've never even once done it in their entire lives.
They're just spouting bullshit ... like that idiotic reporter was. o I apologize if I'm too blunt and factual and honest for you.
Almost every lame excuse people made is just pure bullshit, Trader. o I apologize for being blunt and honest with you
But almost every excuse people have said sounds like my kids explaining why they can't mow the lawn, or why they can't take out the trash, Trader. o It's almost complete bullshit what you just said, IMHO.
I trust that you _believe_ your own bullshit, so you're not lying. o But it takes only seconds for me to prove it's bullshit, Trader.
I posit that if I can destroy your stated beliefs with a couple of facts o Then your belief system is purely imaginary, Trader.
For example, as you must be aware, I've done my own brake jobs and clutch and tire mounting, and CCV, and cooling system, etc., where the basic tools are used for many jobs over time.
Yet, for each job, there are specific tools also.
Specifically to brake jobs, there _are_ special tools I've purchased specifically for brake jobs, for example, which include a variety of mics and calipers, dial-gauges, runout positioning blocks, and a variety of spoons, spring clamps and pliers, spreaders, etc.
I don't make shit up, Trader, so if you want PHOTOS of all those tools, I'll take them for you - but rest assured, brake jobs require you to purchase tools that aren't often used just as much as tire mounting does.
So your statement just reeks of ignorant bullshit, Trader. o I apologize if I'm being too honest and blunt and open with you.
The real reason you are making up these lame excuses is the same reason, IMHO, that my grandkids tell me why they can't mow the lawn for their parents.
You don't _like_ the job o And that's ok.
Just please stop with the bullshit - that's all I ask of you. o Just be honest.
The current stock of eliminator AGMs will all be East Penn as the change was made last year.I believe they have grey tops while the inferior batteries had blue tops. Not sure about the Nautilis marine AGMs which I believe are still blue top.
As stated previously - I've mounted tires with shitty equipment (not Harbor Fright because they don't do business in Canada - but the same cheap crap chinese changer is available here and friends have had them. I refuse to use them.
I've changed tires with 2 "spoons" and a high-lift "handy-man" jack and been less frustrated -- - and that's saying a LOT!!
No - you can't read. The information I supplied says there are two ways to match mount a tire.Uniformity and weight. They say the red dot (uniformity) is more important if it is there AND THE RIM IS MARKED because you can't balance out an out-of-round condition. If the rim mark is not there - either never marked or no longer obviously visible, use the yellow. The yellow dot will MINIMIZE the amount ov external weight required to balance the wheel. It also said how to find the high spot on the rim.If there is no high spot on the rim uniformity matching is both impossible and pointless.
Most forged alloy rims do not have uniformity markings and are virtually "dead true" when spun. Most welded steel rims do have a high spot that is affected by the weld in the rim - but after hitting a few potholes the highspot is liable to be anywhere BUT where it was marked due to different low spots being established. The weight distribution doesn't change with the beating the rim takes on the road
Not saying it WILL but it CAN - as a lot of "shimmy" can be damped out so it is not perceptible in the steering wheel, but the tie rods still feel it.
Then I hope you have an Epipen and you must need to use it frequently, because you're full of it.
Talk about BS, that's clearly BS. Many jobs only require common tools like screwdrivers and socket wrenches that cover a very wide range of work, are used frequently, are small, easy to store. A tire changing apparatus that needs to be bolted to the floor, not so much.
Well, bully for you. I've done brakes for years without having to buy anything special. Most I've used that might be called "special", is a micrometer to measure the caliper thickness and that also serves many other purposes besides brakes. You're the kind of guy that over analyzes everything. If some manual, somewhere said to use special tool XYZ, you'd spend a week analyzing that, making posts and then run out and buy it. I'd have the job done long before that.
My experience and that of countless others says otherwise.
You're the one with all the BS, not a single person here agrees with you that changing tires at home makes sense. Not a one. Nor have I ever encountered anyone online or in real life that thinks it makes sense. Clare is a retired mechanic, he told you similar. And as to BS, twice now you've made posts in this thread, attributing things to me that I never said. Once case, you said that "per Trader", we now know the procedure is to mount and balance tires at home, then go to Costco to have them dynamically balanced, if necessary". I never said that. What I actually said was that I'm not going to screw around mounting tires at home when I can get them mounted and dynamically balanced at Costco for $15 a tire. Then you just made another post, directed at me, where you yammer on about some $2 extra charge at Costco. I have no idea what that's about, I never said anything about either $2 or any extra charge.
Woaaah there Pilgrim! There you go again. I have no idea WTF you're talking about. I never posted anything here about a $2 extra charge at Costco or anything about $2 period. One more time, what I said was that it makes no sense to me to screw around changing tires at home when you can get them mounted and dynamically balanced for $15 a tire at Costco. And then when it was suggested that you can take wheels to Costco to have the tires mounted instead of waiting, I said that makes no sense to me either, because while you might save some time at Costco, you then have the job back home of jacking up the car and changing the wheels. That undoes any time savings, and now you have WORK to do too. And most people don't have a spare set of wheels either. Geez, you drop the car with the Costco tire people, you shop at Costco, take your time, have a piece of pizza, check you mail on your phone, etc and it's done. That is ALL that I said. And everyone else here has pretty much told you the same thing.
While there are times where road force balancing is required, there are certainly times when it's not required - and hence - a waste of duplicative effort.
It's sort of like combing your hair a hundred times a day even though your hair doesn't need combing, or sippering up your zipper when it's already zippered up, or climbing stairs twice when you already climbed them, or washing a windshield when it's already clean, or screwing a screw in over and over again even though it'[s already screwed in, or shining your shoes again even though they're already shiny, or eating a nice meal, then puking it out, and then eating it again, and again, and again, or like carrying around four umbrellas even though one would suffice, etc.
The point is simple: o You either need it o Or you don't.
If you don't need it then why insist on it? o Or, put another way...how do you know you need it?
The real answer is that you just _think_ you need it. o It's a classic FUD ploy that advertisers live and breathe
The gullible sheep fall for every marketing trick in the book.
I'm not saying RFB isn't a good thing when it's needed. o I'm simply asking you how you know that you need it?
LOGIC QUESTION: If you're not feeling any perceptible vibration, what do you think that expensive Hunter RFB machine is going to gain you?
Hi Clare, I agree with your statements above where adults generally have no problem aggreeing first on facts, and then on rational logical deductions based on those facts.
The facts are that _plenty_ of things don't match "performance" with "price" (or whatever metric we want to match with price.
A classic example is, for example, high octane gasoline for a vehicle that is running correctly that wasn't designed for it. Putting high-octane fuel in that car won't gain the driver a single iota of anything valuable in terms of performance.
It just cost more. o It's not better gas.
Many people (idiots all) _think_ it's better gas. o Do you know why they _think_ it's better gas Clare?
I do.
I've been running an experiment for _decades_, where I innocently ask the person getting gas near me what's the difference between the ratings, where I'm terrified of the answers I get. If you ever want any confirmation that the vast majority of people are brain dead, just ask them what the difference is between the various grades of gasoline, Clare.
While I'm sure you know the correct answer, the vast majority of people I've asked that question of terrify me that they actually _believe_ the bullshit they spew.
As you must be aware Clare, putting more expensive gas in your car results in only one perceptable change, which is that it decreases your disposable income.
It has no other effect where it takes me mere seconds to DESTROY the belief system that 'you get what you pay for'.
You get what you get. o What you pay for it is up to a host of other factors.
I do understand your point though that sometimes we need to be "wary" that the price is just "too cheap", e.g., if gas were sold at $1 per gallon, we'd wonder how on earth they can do that, so it might be a clue that something is fishy.
Hi Clare, Above you said I didn't understand you, and now I'm showing that you didn't understand me, where that's normal for Usenet because it's a medium of just words, where it takes a bit of clarification when the inference is different from the implication.
Just as you felt I inferred incorrectly that you claimed "you get what you pay for", where in reality, you were claiming that sometimes it's so cheap that we have to question what it is that we're getting - I have to clarify for you what I said.
I never once said "less expensive is a better deal".
I said you get what you get. o And you pay what you pay.
The price has almost nothing to do with what you get, Clare, where I can prove that time and again (e.g., compare a Fram oil filter with a Hengste or Mann oil filter, as just one of a zillion examples).
Sometimes price tracks performance. o Often it doesn't.
My point was _always_ very clear, Clare:
You get what you get. o What you pay for that is a different equation altogether.
You know, for example that I buy by the specs. o I buy batteries by the specs (which mean more than just amps & volts) o I buy tires by the specs (which means more than just UTQG numbers) o I buy gasoline by the specs (which means more than just octane ratings) etc.
For you to infer that I implied that I buy by price is dead wrong. o I buy by the specs - and I pay the lowest price for those best specs.
There are _many_ tradeoffs in buying by specs and then factoring in the price, where each items has its own equation.
But I am on record as saying time and again that the PRICE is the LAST thing you look at.
You first look at the specs; and then you factor in the price.
Hi Clare, I have nothing against being wary if a price seems too good.
But really, if I pay $100 for a tire at Tire Rack, and if I pay $75 for that exact same tire at Simple Tire, how on earth are you going to claim that the tire is somehow (magically?) "better" just because I paid more for it at one outlet than the other?
As always, you get what you get. o What you pay for it is a different calculation altogether.
Hi Clare, I've been on record for _years_ saying that PRICE is LAST. o You first determine the desired specs that you need (where word "spec" doesn't mean the bullshit from the marketing guys).
Then you find the _best_ items that meet your spec.
Lastly, you factor in the price.
It's the _intelligent_ way of doing things, Clare. o IMHO, those who _start_ with price, are doing it backwards.
IMHO, most people can't fathom that the price has nothing per se to do with the performance of the item, so they _think_ that the price tracks the performance.
If I buy a BMW in California, and pay $10,000 more for it, and then if I buy that same BMW in Nevada, and pay $10,000 less, it's still the same BMW.
Anyone who says "you get what you pay for", is an idiot, IMHO, Clare. o You get what you get.
What you pay for it depends on a host of unrelated factors.
Hi Clare, At least you seem to comprehend that marketing is in the business of creating imaginary belief systems (e.g., like the need to have, oh, I don't know, a tattoo, or the need to drink soda, or the need to use high octane fuel (so your car "feels better"), etc.
Lots of this bullshit marketing is done for tires, for example, where women are targeted especially wonderfully where I recall a commercial where a mom is driving in the rain with kids in the back and all of a sudden a dog crosses the wet road and she jams on the brakes, and then the commercial says something like "Aren't you glad you're safe with Michelins" (or whatever brand it was).
The commercial was complete and total bullshit Clare o But that's what the gullible sheep fall for.
If advertising of imaginary belief systems didn't work, they wouldn't be spending billions on advertising.
We unearthed, for example, long ago, as I recall, trade rags which purported to claim to tell the tire shops how much money they would make by convincing gullible customers to get RFB as a habit. (It might take a while to dig up those cites, but that's what I recall when we last discussed this topic.)
There was a guy in this very thread who was convinced that he _needs_ RFB on all his tires, which is just total bullshit, Clare.
There are times when you need it, of course... o And there are plenty of times when you don't.
The problem with balance, of course, is that it's not so easy to know when you need it if you're not the person who mounted the tire, which, I agree, complicates the decision due to the ignorance of the owner in that case.
Hi Clare, As you know, I buy tires by the reliable specs but, as you know, the specs we _really_ want, are nearly impossible to get for every tire we're considering.
Likewise, I buy brake friction materials by the spec, where, again, the specs we really want simply don't exist.
You can buy some things by the specs, where you can be reasonably well assured that the specs aren't a lie (e.g., gasoline), but there are plenty of other things where the specs could easily be a lie (e.g., radio transmitter EIRP or speaker 3dB frequency response).
Everything we buy has a _different_ set of specs and lack of specs, no matter _what_ that object is, Clare.
My main point to the morons who claim 'you get what you pay for', is that they _wish_ the world was as simple as a number line when it comes to assessing quality.
But it's not.
If you buy a tree, it has a different spec than if you buy a tire which has a different spec than if you buy a shoe which has a different spec than if you buy a screwdriver which has a different spec than if you buy a capacitor which has a different spec than if you buy a pair of jeans which has a different spec than if you buy a starter motor which has a different spec than if you buy a chalk board, etc.
In the end, those simpletons who _wish_ you could assess quality by the price are spewing bullshit of their imaginary belief system just like two small kids discussing Santa Claus are spewing the bullshit of an imaginary belief system.
The maxim I follow when purchasing anything is this simple, Clare: o I strive to look at the spec first - using price as the last metric.
Hi Trader, It's normal on Usenet, which is a delayed text-only medium, for clarification to be needed when people are discussing things that they're not aware of the math which is involved.
To clarify for you, that extra $2 (i.e., 50 cents per wheel) negates the need for the wheels to need to be removed by the owner.
To clarify even further the price which I have posted many times after you said that Costco mounts non-Costco tires: o You can pay $5 per wheel if you hand Costco the wheel, or, better yet, o You can pay $5.50 per wheel, if you leave the wheels on the car.
To clarify even further what I said from the beginning, if you pay this fifty cents per wheel, Costco will remove the wheels from the vehicle and put them back (essentially, it costs you a quarter for each operation).
At those prices, most people would logically opt to drive the car to Costco, and _not_ drop off the wheels, which is what I have been trying to tell you.
Hi Trader, I don't think you understood that the two dollars is in the noise level, where it literally costs about twenty five cents per operation of removal and reinstallation, which is so cheap as to be in the noise level.
So whether you drop off the wheels or you drop off the car, it's the same price (essentially) either way.
Literally, the price is two dollars different, which isn't enough of an impact, either way, for us to be discussing, don't you think?
Essentially, the price is the same whether you drop off the wheels or whether you drop off the car, which is what I've been trying to get you to comprehend in the last couple of posts.
I told you this when I first responded to your very helpful information that Costco mounts non-Costco tires, so I'm not sure why we're _still_ hashing it out multiple times.
In summary, whether you drop off the tires or you drop off the car, it's the same price (differing by only two bucks, which is in the noise level, Trader, IMHO).
Again, whether you drop off the wheels, or whether you drop off the car, it's essentially the same price.
Whether you drop off the wheels or you drop off the car, it's up to you, since the price is essentially the same either way.
Hi Trader, It's strange that you're telling _me_ that "everyone has told me the same thing" when I was the one who told everyone here that the price is essentially the same whether you drop off the car or whether you drop off the tires.
If people are telling me that, then they're idiots, since I am the one who called Costco and reported the prices.
So your claim that they're "telling me the same thing" is just more bullshit on your part that is completely imaginary since I'm the one who told _them_ the prices that Costco charges.
Let me re-iterate since you seem to be spewing total bullshit, not because you're lying, but because you actually seem to honestly _believe_ the bullshit you just spewed.
FACT:
You told me that Costco mounts non-Costco tires. FACT
I called Costco and confirmed their prices for that work. FACT:
I published the price that shows a puny difference for whether you drop off the car, or whether you drop off the tires.
LOGIC: The two dollars is in the noise level, Clare, at least it is for me. LOGIC: For you to continually make a big deal of this puny two dollars means that you have some other problem, Clare, because I clearly said it's in the noise level multiple times Clare. LOGIC: It's complete bullshit for you to claim that others needed to "tell me" about this obvious clear fact.
Let's just summarize that just because you are confused, doesn't mean that I'm not factual and logical.
It simply means you're confused - and that confusion has nothing to do with me since I presented the Costco price list very early on in this thread Clare.
I assume you didn't read that Costco price list, or maybe you didn't comprehend that Costco price list, or maybe you don't _like_ that Costco price list (or whatever).
I can't tell you why you failed to comprehend something as simple at this two dollars being in the noise level in terms of affecting a decision on whether to drop off the wheels or the car.
In short: o I'm allergic to bullshit o I'm all about facts - and logical deductions based on those facts.
Hi Clare, This is an EXCELLENT clarifying point, that the red dot takes precedence IF... if ... if ... if ... the rim is marked.
I very much APPRECIATE your clarifying point, since I have been using the maxim that the red dot takes precedence over the yellow dot, but where the RIM markings are hard to find in these older rims that have been in use for decades.
Hi Clare,
Again, I APPRECIATE this clarification, where I wish this thread was more about how to properly mount and balance tires than about excuses for why people don't like to properly mount and balance tires themselves.
What you're saying is that I need to modify my algorithm to something like this:
If the red and yellow dots exist, and if there are no clear rim markings, then mount by the yellow dot which is the "weight" dot.
I do have dial gauges, but I don't have a jig set up for checking uniformity, particularly if spinning at speed is involved.
When you first mentioned this, I wasn't sure if you thought it could be done at hand spun speeds.
Would you suggest the uniformity test be done at such hand-spun speeds?
This is another GREAT POINT that the weight distribution doesn't change, over time, as much as the uniformity might.
Thanks for that logical deduction based on the facts.
Hi Clare, Thanks for that suggestion that an imperceptible vibration "can" damage things, where what data we really would want, but I don't think we have, is what percentage of tires actually _needs_ a dynamic balance if the tire is match mounted, and if a good static balance is performed, and if no perceptible vibration is felt at speed.
It would be fantastic to find such numbers, but, as I recall, I looked in the past, and what I found was mostly trade publications that tell owners of the Hunter RFB equipment how to "make money" selling the service to customers.
The one problem with that statement is that, IMHO, nobody here really seems to have viable facts for an accuratge percentage of wheels that actually _need_ to be dynamically balanced when the match mounting and static balance is done well and where there isn't any perceptible vibration at speed.
Since you make the strong claim above, do you actually have any statistics to help us understand what your belief system is actually based upon?
Let's keep politics out of this since politics is one place where imaginary belief systems abound, and, as you should know by now, I'm allergic to bullshit, so you can imagine what I think of politicians who spew it.
In short, I showed you twice now where you totally misrepresented what I've said, that you attributed things to me that I never said. And your dishonest methods continue, you're off to another whole page about the $2 BS, explaining it AGAIN to me. I didn't post a damn thing about $2. Never, nor do I give a shit. Also, how you keep saying "Hi Trader", over and over, while replying within one post, is just plain weird.
I don't care if he likes to DIY tires. I do care when he makes posts attributing things to me that I never said. I simply said that it makes no sense to me to change tires at home when you can get them mounted AND dynamically balanced at Costco for $15. He turned that into a post where he claimed, or strongly implied, that I had said that the best procedure is to mount your tires at home, static balance them, then go to Costco for dynamic balance if needed. And then he made a post, replying to me, about some $2 charge at Costco, as if I'm involved in that, when IDK what he's even talking about.
I think he kind of did tell you how to know. He implied if you're not feeling any perceptible vibration, then you don't need it. There is a range of options when mounting new tires:
no balancing static dynamic RFB
I'm happy with dynamic when I get it done for $15 as part of mounting. In decades of driving and cars, never had a problem where there was vibration or anything else bad happening. It works for me. RFB, I've never had it offered or quoted, it's not that common. I'd see it as mostly useful if you're having a problem.
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