Is burning copper dangerous

[anoldfart2]

Is burning copper dangerous? I am asking because I was camping and tossed some copper dust in the fire to make the flames colorful. The flames were really nice, but some drunken guy in the next camp was having a fit about it, saying that burning copper emits dangerous fumes that when breathed are toxic and of course, according to him, ALL the smoke was going his direction. I told the guy to either get lost or to call the police on us, and they would settle it. (since he was the one that was drunk, and we were not, I knew that would be fun). Anyhow, I just wanted to ask and find out if there really is any truth to his claim. (The idiot packed up and left in the morning, which was great for us, because we got rid of the moron and had a bigger camp). .

[William.Deans]

Greetings,

Toxicity is not black and white. Many things are toxic (or toxic enough to matter) only above certain levels. If you inject 6 oz of water into an 8 oz lab rat it will die. Copper is toxic. Your small amount of copper dust in the fire as a demonstration isn't going to hurt anyone but I am sure that someone will tell you different if you ask enough people. I am sure the drunkard lost more braincells that night to what he had been drinking than injured his body due to the copper.

Hope this helps, William

PS: I'm not a doctor.

[William.Deans]

Some info about copper toxicity:

" Copper is a heavy metal that is toxic in its unbound form. Almost all of the copper in the body is bound to proteins, thereby reducing the concentration of unbound copper ions to almost zero. Most diets contain enough copper (2-5mg daily) to prevent a deficiency and not enough to cause toxicity. The World Health Organization (WHO) suggests that

10-12mg per day may be the upper safe limit for consumption. If as little as 2gms of a copper salt are ingested, usually with suicidal intent, the resulting copper-induced hemolytic anemia and kidney damage are generally fatal. "

from

PS: Yes, I know you were talking about the fumes but thought you might find this interesting anyway.

[m Ransley]

The warning label from my copper" Rainbow Flame Crystals" "Warning containg Copper Sulfate Avoid contact with eyes or skin , if swallowed give milk or water and contact Physician. For eyes flush with water get medical attention. Avoid inhalation of fumes and prolonged exposure" Id be pissed. Id say he was justified, enjoying his vacation , You ruined it.

Burning many products will harm you, CCA treated wood can permanantly poison you with heavy metal. Copper is a poison, Copper sulfate is dangerous in powder and likely burnt, as metals will not burn up completely at low campfire temps, mearly they are airborn. You are an ass hole camper, camping is to be fun and enjoy the outdoors, not having people pollute through noise, abuse or pollution. Whether or not your product afected him he was inteligent to be worried. So he was happy and drunk and a nice guy, and you ruined his vacation. I hope you are proud you moron. You are lucky he wasnt a murderer, he would have had a defence.

[Larry Bud]

This sounds like a troll, but I'll bite.

Where did you get "copper dust"? Was it pure copper? OR was it a copper compound, such as copper sulfate or copper chloride?

[Edwin Pawlowski]

The stuff is sol commercially with no particular warnings. OTOH, inhaling any smoke is not good as it contains particulates.

[TURTLE]

This is Turtle.

The Human body needs Copper in a very little amount but large doses , i would think would not be good for you in large volume of it. Protein in the human body is good for you but protein in large volume has the effect of rattle snake venom in the body. Rattle Snake Venom is 100% pure protein which will damage the human body if subjected to the human body.

Also there is something about they not making pots and pans out of copper for some reason. this could be your reason why it is suppose to not be breathed into the body.

Anything to a excess will kill you. Drinking 5 gallion of water a day will kill you.

TURTLE

[Joseph Meehan]

[RobR]

for more info, try asking this in sci.chem

[Beachcomber]

You bring up an interesting point...

Ever been to a fireworks show? Often you can smell the gunpower (and the other chemicals that are used in their manufacture when they explode).

These are some nasty chemicals and include chromium, strontium, copper!, barium, magnesium and many, many, others. It is the oxidation of these substances that produce the beautiful colors that delight the audience.

No one wants to ban commercial fireworks shows for polluting the air with cancer inducing chemicals. It's a part of our tradition... Just don't breath the air too much...

Beachcomber

[rider89]

maybe it's time to get back on the meds?

[Chris Lewis]

According to TURTLE :

If Rattle Snake Venom was 100% pure protein, it'd be a solid ;-)

Protein is a class of organic chemicals. Some are extremely toxic in small doses, most are relatively innocuous, and won't do anything other than make you sick if you ate vast quantities of it. Most snake venoms have proteins that attack specific parts of your biochemistry, whether nervous system or ones that can best be described (somewhat inaccurately) as corrosive (they _digest_ you).

There's more protein in a handful of peanuts or a slice of meat than there is in a snake bite.

Many pots have copper _external_ layers to promote better heat distribution, but not on the interior. I've been hearing some health warnings about copper clad pans recently.

Copper is toxic to invertibrates (which is why, for example, copper is used in wood preservatives and aquarium disinfectants) in very low dosages. Driving copper nails into a tree will kill it. It's only logical to assume that higher dosages will be toxic to people. And it is.

I'd believe a small amount of "flame color" chemicals thrown in a fire won't be a serious health issue, but not if you were directly downwind and got it in your face. Copper sulfate smoke, for example, will be quite acrid (sulfur compounds, ie: SOx, if nothing else are a bit hard on the lungs - forms sulfuric or sulphurous acid in contact with moisture - ie: the inside of your repiratory tract/lungs. Ugh.).

For sure.

[PipeDown]

Good point, given the small amount the OP burned, It is likely no more harmful than burning a toy sparkler from the 4th of July and far less polluting that a full sized show.

As drunks go, they often overly emphasize even the littlest points and cannot accept differing points of view. Sounds like his drunken tirade was the real vacation bummer, I'm sure a "Excuse me would you mind not burning that stuff, I"m concerned...." would have worked a lot better for both parties. I hope he left because he was embarassed at his behaviour not at the fear of copper toxicity.

[mm]

But that is all there is too breathe.

I thought about breathing a lot before I got there, then holding my breath until I got home.

It works with food and water.

But I don't think it works with air.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

My container says nothing about the inhalation, just ingestion. It is over

6 years old though.

[w_tom]

[Gideon]

m Ransley wrote

The warning label from my copper" Rainbow Flame Crystals" "Warning containg Copper Sulfate Avoid contact with eyes or skin , if swallowed give milk or water and contact Physician. For eyes flush with water get medical attention. Avoid inhalation of fumes and prolonged exposure"

Id be pissed. Id say he was justified, enjoying his vacation , You ruined it.

Burning many products will harm you, CCA treated wood can permanantly poison you with heavy metal. Copper is a poison, Copper sulfate is dangerous in powder and likely burnt, as metals will not burn up completely at low campfire temps, mearly they are airborn.

You are an ass hole camper, camping is to be fun and enjoy the outdoors, not having people pollute through noise, abuse or pollution. Whether or not your product afected him he was inteligent to be worried. So he was happy and drunk and a nice guy, and you ruined his vacation. I hope you are proud you moron. You are lucky he wasnt a murderer, he would have had a defence.

=====================

I agree. We are only hearing one side of the story and it may be that there were 2 drunks involved in the incident.

Anybody downwind or nearby has the right to inquire when he observes some moron dumping "chemicals" on a bondfire. I use the word "moron" because the original poster is asking about the safety of his act AFTER he has done it. Then he rants about the other camper.

Copper chloride is one of the most commonly used chemicals for producing vivid blue colors in pyrotechnics. This is generally regarded as safe, although it should be pointed out that quantities are often very small and/or the comps are ignited far from spectators and often high in the air. Dangers associated with breathing non-trivial amounts of copper compounds include metal fume fever, nasal ulcers, and respiratory irritation.

The important point is not the dangers of the copper salts on the fire, but the attitude of the original poster who feels that he can perform the act without thinking, and then throw down the gauntlet when somebody questions his actions.

[Gideon]

Hi Turtle,

I don't think that there is nearly as much controversy over copper utensils as there is currently is over aluminum pots and pans. At one time there was a lot of concern about aluminum intake and Alzheimer's disease.

Gideon

[anoldfart2]

Well, if you take a piece of copper pipe and grind it on your grinder, it's PURE copper (aside from any abrasive wheel dust that gets in). What I tossed in the fire was exactly this, except not from copper pipe, on a grinder, but from copper banding dust from a power hacksaw. I am not asking "after the fact". I have been stuffing this copper dust into a pill bottle for years. and always take some with me to campouts. I get it at work and it is waste. It makes nice looking flames both at camp, and at home in my fireplace.

Just for the record, you can buy fake logs, which are pretty much noth> I am also rather troubled that he threw what he 'assumed'

[anoldfart2]

We need someone to invent a large lung that can store a few hours of air. The only broblem would be where to install it. I guess it would work on women, just two huge air filled breasts, but men have no spare places.