How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

I am not yet on Yaris so I should try them. Mostly I just want DIYs. If I could find a DIY for the clutch, that would tell me almost everything.

I did watch a few youtube DIYs and it looks like the general procedure is something like the following - but the real problem with watching a DIY for the wrong vehicle is that sometimes little things matter a lot.

For example, if you have to support the engine but you don't think that you do, or if you have to have a certain sized tool but you don't have it, then you're stuck at the worst time and place.

Anyway, the "general" procedure seems to be this: . While it's on the ground, remove the cabin gear shift mechanism . If possible, unbolt the "conning tower" for the shift mechanism . Then jackstand the car as high as you can get it (I have 6 ton stands). . Remove the drive shaft . Remove the slave cylinder . Remove the speedometer cable . Remove any speed sensors . Remove anything else in the way . Then support the transmission with a transmission jack . Then unbolt the front bell housing

I think that's it. Did I miss a major step?

One question I have is "will the fluid leak out"? I think not - but I know that the gearshift lever is open to the fluid. So if you tip it over, the fluid will certainly come out.

The second question is whether a transmission lift is really needed when you're in a jackstand situation (so you don't need ten feet of lift).

Can't a floor jack hold the transmission? I watched one video where a guy wrestled the transmission out by hand.

Must I have a transmission jack? If I need it I'll get it - but it will only be used once so I'd rather not.

There *is* a semicircular shield plate on the bell housing. I don't know what is behind it though.

Two different things, one of which was fixed yesterday:

1. The clutch pedal feels like crap (more about that below)
2. It wouldn't shift into gear when cold.

The cold-shift issue somehow, magically, went away when I replaced the original fluid yesterday with Red Line MT-90 "miracle fluid". I didn't believe in the miracle fluid, but the driver (who isn't me) reported that it works just fine now for shifting into gear when cold. Huh? How can that be? What on earth is so magical about that fluid that it makes shifting into gear when cold possible when the only thing that changed was the fluid?

I don't understand it but I'm not complaining.

There is no indication of slipping of the clutch. I can stall the engine easily when I put it in the wrong gear. I can slip the clutch to get it to go in the wrong gear. I can start on a hill in the right gear.

So there is no indication that the clutch itself is slipping. But ...

The pedal feels like crap.

It was impossible to engage just two days ago. For months, the wife has been complaining (it's actually her car) that it wouldn't go into gear. So she shifted into reverse to get out of the garage. Then she turned the engine off and back on. Then she shifted into first to make her K turn. Then she turned the engine off and back on. Then she repeated this for as long as it took her (something like five more steps than it takes me) to complete her K turn and be on her way.

Yesterday and today, she was able to shift into the first and reverse gears without turning off the engine! Can a simple oil change do that?

I don't understand it. I really don't.

BTW, I don't know if turning the engine off was necessary. I suspect not. I suspect she could have gotten it into neutral and just activated the clutch pedal a few times. The problem was it wouldn't get OUT of gear to go into neutral. So she shut the engine down. When I tried it, I just held the brake and pressed the clutch pedal a few times so I think the engine didn't need to be turned off as I see nothing that turning off the engine should do to the transmission. Do you?

This is my problem. I know *nothing* about "forks" and "throwout bearings" and "pilot bearings" etc.

Sure I watched that great video on how transmissions work but that doesn't give me any *practical* knowledge about how to diagnose why the clutch pedal feels like crap.

It's so hard to explain that even when I try, it's not the same as feeling it.

When I step on the pedal, and then release it while in gear, it just doesn't feel right.

The pedal goes down ok, but then when I lift it up, the first couple of inches are like floating in air, while the next inch it seems to fully engage, where the next four or five inches of release travel is wasted as the clutch is already engaged.

Assume the whole pedal travel is, oh I don't know, let's say 12 inches. The engagement travel is something like an inch it seems. The rest of the 11 inches aren't doing anything.

Does that make any sense?

I do all my maintenance such that my 15-year old cars have never been to a mechanic, almost.

But I've never messed with is a manual transmission.

I have four jack stands of 6-ton size (which is something like 16 inches). I also have two ramps, but I almost never use them because the floor jack is pretty beefy. It goes about 15 inches. It's the costco steel big one, which I bought about ten years ago (now Costco has aluminum ones that I salivate over but I don't need a third floor jack).

THIS IS GREAT NEW INFORMATION!

I never heard of a "transmission saddle" for a floor jack until this moment!

I never mind buying a tool that I *need* (because it's still cheaper than paying someone $630+tax to do the clutch); but I don't want to buy a $100 transmission stand if I don't really need it (where I don't need the ten feet of lift but I do need the ability to hold the transmission down!

If this "transmission saddle" can be bought locally, I'll get it!

I actually have both the so-called factory shop manuals somewhere in my crowded garage. I bought them for about $100 when the car was new two decades ago, like I always did for all my vehicles.

I also have the Hanes somewhere (probably in the same spot). I can't find them but that doesn't matter because anyone who recommends a shop manual from Japan probably hasn't ever read one (or, has a lot more experience than I have).

For example, I used that shop manual to replace the front shocks after compressing the springs and everything was either wrong or missing in the steps actually needed. Some things were assumed. Most didn't apply because the shop manual handled a few models (although the Hanes/Chiltons are far far far worse in trying to cover everything at the same time).

As someone who has used shop manuals for decades, in a word, they suck.

There is nothing wrong with having a shop manual mind you. But having one doesn't make them not suck.

Could have been E39. I sometimes flip among the various models that share the same M54 engine. So, probably was you...

Crush washers I can believe, because even if you buy one from the dealer, they are what? 50 cents? And they are available from foreign car part suppliers online for very reasonable prices. Or Ebay. Those vacuum hoses though, if you paid $10 for this one, $10 for that one, it adds up quickly. And even the alternate online sources, if you do it by BMW part number, they still aren't cheap. I just got 7ft of silicone hose for $5 on Ebay from China.

Somebody at BMW should be fired for the CCV, which for the peanut gallery is their PCV type system. Instead of a simple PCV, they have an oil separator that takes the crankcase vapors outside the engine, to an oil separator, that pulls the oil out and returns the fumes to the intake to be burned. The problem is the CCV contraption fails, the pipes get clogged with mayonaise like stuff, because the oil and water cools and turns into sludge. And some of the failures are interesting. Have you seen the video of the engine oil logged? The CCV failed, the intake sucked crankcase oil into the cylinders, oil logging it so it locks up. That's only possible because the BMW geniuses put the return line as part of the dipstick tube and it winds up below the oil level in the crankcase.

And yet if you bring up that this is a stupid design, you get told no, BMW has a better design, their engine meets more stringent emissions standards, etc. At the same time you have guys over there re-engineering it back to a PCV valve design.

Been there done that. LOL. I now have the BMW software for my PC so I can reset the light.

Can't complain too much about that. Had one fail here.

The puter says that's screwed up again. It's not on my priority list. It's like an appendix, another example of the German's making it more complicated. I've driven it with and without the DISA connected and noticed no difference. Maybe you get some extra torque or HP at some point on the curve for the spec sheets, but I can't tell any difference.

I did mine last year, because I was doing the valve cover gaskets. I have to say, they seemed pretty good to me. I think they were still working and sealing OK. The new ones are just a tad tighter.

From those forums, that's the conclusion I came to. Things like those window regulators, you would think they would fix after the first few years of failures.

The good news is that while there are some problems, like the CCV, DISA, etc, the engines are durable and go 300K miles without blowing up.

Yeah. Lots of bimmers have the M54. That's one thing BMW got right. The engine and the drive train and the steering/suspension. Plus interior noise is pretty low.

Everything else is essentially not much thought about on a bimmer.

One thing I recently learned is that when you have the AC compressor switch set to on, it appears that it basically runs it with the AC full on and uses the heater to then warm the air to the set temp. I can understand the need to do that to some extent, to remove humidity. You want to drop the air temp to remove humidity, then warm it back up. But when it's not humid, it's a waste of energy to run the AC compressor excessively. You would think when they are desperate to increase mileage to meet govt reqts that reducing the AC load would be something that could be easily done. A humidity sensor for example. Also they target an AC coil temp just a couple deg above freezing, while other cars appear to maintain a higher temp. So they are constantly chilling air down to near freezing, only to heat it back up to get it to 72F.

Is the clutch linkage mechanical or hydraulic? Get under it and you'll see some sort of lever sticking out the side of the bellhousing. Have your wife operate the clutch and see if you are getting a full stroke and smooth travel.

It really sounds like the clutch isn't disengaging cleanly. It doesn't take too much drag to make shifting difficult. With the F150 the throwout bearing was the culprit. It would start to hang up on the nose of the transmission. At first I thought it was the slave cylinder of the hydraulic so I replaced it. (And anyway that was a lot easier).

The symptoms were very erratic so sometimes it would work, sometimes not. I also thought it might be the pivot ball for the lever arm. A spray of lube and it would work for a while but I think that was just coincidental. That could be why your miracle oil worked.

I'd have to see a 4Runner to be sure, but usually the transmission bolts to the bellhousing with 4 or so bolts. The transmission has a round boss, say 1/4" deep that is a snug fit into the bellhousing to keep everything centered. Just removing those might do the trick. Typically the bellhousing itself will have a bunch of smaller cap screws around the perimeter that can be a pain in the butt. The housing might have a bushing for the nose of the starter motor that's something else to line up.

I've done it without a jack more than with one. Newer transmissions are relatively light, but then I can't bench press what I could 40 years ago either. the real problem with doing that is the input shaft of the transmission needs to be level and square to pick up the clutch splines and get the end of the shaft into the pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft. (again, generic, a 4Runner might be a little different) Horsing around a 60 or 70 pound awkward hunk can be tricky.

You can use a floor jack. The problem is most floor jacks only have a small cup. You need to figure out someway to balance the transmission and secure it. Then the shaft might not be at quite the right angle so you need to wedge it. A transmission jack with have a larger surface to hold the transmission, generally some brackets to secure it in the right position, straps to tie it down, and maybe a way to tilt the whole deal. Most tool rental places have them and unless you're on a really tight budget it is one hell of a lot easier. When I was a kid I didn't have much cash in hand and did most things the hard way. it can be done but it's not much fun.

Rent it. The local Time Rental is showing $34.50 a day. If you don't have a torque wrench you can generally rent those too. Another thing about keeping the tranny nice and level and upright is you don't suddenly find out that there really isn't a shaft seal on the input or output shaft and fill your armpit with fluid.

If you figure it will take more than a couple of days you might find something like this locally:

Even if it's a couple of bucks more locally you can measure up your floor jack and make sure it's something that's going to fit without going off onto another project to make it work.

Walmart shows them but I imagine it would be something they would have to order before you find out how well it works with your floor jack.

I've got the manuals for both of my Suzuki bikes. Some parts like the electronics are good, others do assume you've worked on bikes and just hit the high spots.

Years ago I was buttoning up a rebuild on a Healey and I got to the point where you replace the distributor drive shaft. The shaft was drilled and tapped for a small screw and the manual specified a screw of a certain length, maybe 2". I only had a shorter one so I figured they were just being anal. Seems the short one isn't long enough to hold onto and engage the drive gear so you drop the whole mess into the crankcase. There wasn't any oil in it yet but there were sure a lot of little screws holding the crankcase on...

Wghat about the bloody aluminum engine mount bolts? Not sure of the model but in the last 5? years and I believe it was a V8.

The only legitimate reason to buy a Bimmer is for image. Even its performance is mostly image.

Drain the fluid. Otherwize unless you have a "dummy shaft" to fit in the tailstock it WILL leak when you get the tail end low

It can hold it but good luck getting the tilt right - more important putting back in than pulling out. It's a 3 man job with a simple floor jack - and the air will be blue. With a proper trans jack it's a pretty simple one man job.

This is why it is often cheaper to pay someone with the right equipment. You can likely get the labor to change the clutch for the cost of a decent transmission jack - and if you drop the trans on your hand, paying a pro to do the job would be CHEAP in comparison.

Likely some idiot put the wrong fluid in lastr time it was changed. There IS a difference between GL4, GL5, ATF, and engine oil. Differnt transmissions are built to use different fluids.

I'd be checking the release cyl

Again, another reason paying someone who knows MIGHT be a good investment.

The clutch master might be bad too.

I'd be checking the hydraulics and the linkage before tearing the transmission out.

I didn't realize all the stuff, especially tilt, that a transmission jack did where you explained lining up the shafts, where I'm now convinced. I will buy (or rent - but I generally buy) a transmission jack.

It turns out that the cost to replace the clutch is so high (from $650 to $1200 in the two quotes I received already) that the jack is just the first hour of the four hour labor cost AAMCO just quoted (at 4 hours & $600 in labor alone).

BTW, if it takes them four hours, it will take me the entire weekend, and that would be if I have a perfect DIY to follow and if I don't run into problems that I can't overcome easily.

I've been down the tool-rental path, where sometimes it's worth it (like with a ditch digger but most of the time you get a beat up worn tool for about half the price of a brand new tool).

So I'll likely buy a new but inexpensive transmission jack (or this saddle idea if it works).

Googling I see some people just weld a fence post to a flat plate of metal to make a saddle, but I don't have welding equipment (that's another project for another day).

I have rented but found that you gat a beat up tool for about 1/3 the cost of a brand new tool.

How does this cheap $100 transmission jack look?

In this picture you one of my Pittsburgh (not great) torque wrenches.

I don't mind buying a torque wrench if I need it because that is something that gets used time and time again.

I'm gonna drain it based on what was said prior that it's going to leak out no matter what I do. I just drained it two days ago so that's easy to do.

Two days ago I replaced the fluid as shown in this photo, so it will be interesting to see what the new fluid looks like after a few weeks.

Thank you for finding that, which seems to be the $40 "saddle" that was previously suggested.

I like the idea of the saddle because it means I don't have to store a transmission jack that I'll likely never use again (although we all know that spare tools have a way of finding themselves useful in the strangest of ways).

After reading what was written here, I'm definitely going to get "something" for holding the transmission. It will either be the $100 transmission jack or the $40 saddle similar to those listed above.

I presume the jack works fine but I'll read the reviews on that saddle as there is a chance it's a rube goldberg contraption.

The good news is that this is a 2WD Toyota so the transmission "looks" accessible to me to a jack.

Thanks for your wonderful advice!

Thanks for confirming that it will leak more than I want it to. The only reason it matters is that I put in very expensive (for what it is) Red Line MT-90 which was about 20 bucks a quart, so, that's 60 bucks that I don't want to waste.

This is a good point that I had not thought of so thank you for pointing out that I was mostly thinking of removal for the jack where all I had to do was support the weight, but replacement is where "tilt" may matter (I never thought about "tilt" before).

I didn't even know transmission jacks "tilt". I thought they had two things only: . A flat plate . A ten-foot lift

I didn't know that "tilt" was a spec that mattered! :)

I understand your perspective which is that it is "sometimes" best to let the pro's do the jobs where the risk it that you hurt yourself. People make this argument all the time on compression of springs around the shocks.

You know what?

For years, I had AAMCO replace my shocks because I was afraid of dying, but then one day I rented (for free) the spring compressor from an auto parts store and wouldn't you know it. It's a trivial job to do. All these years I was scared of nothing. Now I realize you're gonna say I'm a fool but I did take safety into account, and, in fact, I rented two sets of springs, so I had them double locked.

Safety is always something that has to be weighed proportionately. A chain saw is just about the opposite of safe right? A lawn mower is just as bad depending on the terrain, right? And don't even think of going on the roof for anything, right?

Sometimes we have to take reasonable precautions, so I am leaning toward a "cheap" transmission jack. Now, I know what you're going to say which is that sometimes a cheap tool is more dangerous than a good tool, but I assume the $150 transmission jack I found in my first google hit would be ok for a single transmission job.

I called AAMCO who quoted 4 hours at $600 for labor alone, and then $1200 for the job (estimated over the phone), so at *those* prices, a transmission jack is cheap!

On the E39, the engine mounts are not a major problem. I don't recall a single thread on it but I'm sure they exist. That includes both the V8 and the I6.

The only engine "mount" that is really bad is the V8 power steering pump has two bolts, one of which loosens up for some reason, and then when it falls out, it stays out forever (unless someone notices it). Over time, it causes the bracket to crack, and it's an expensive cast aluminum bracket, so lots of people have tried "welding" it to some degree of success.

The lesson is to always check that lower bolt once a year if you have the V8. The I6 doesn't have that problem because it's a different setup where the V8 at least has a way to drain the PS fluid whereas the I6 has no drain.

I understand that perspective. I didn't buy it for that reason, but I understand the perspective. I bought it because I thought it was a good car. And it is a good car in very many ways. It's also a POS in very many ways.

The handling is very good, especially at speed. The power is pretty good for the size engine (high compression ratio). The suspension is pretty good.

That's about it for what's good - but you have to admit that's the hard stuff.

The easy stuff, like making an A/C system that doesn't take a dozen button presses or sealing the rear door vapor barriers with enough adhesive so they don't leak water or designing the window regulator plastic rollers out of better plastic (etcetera), they suck at.

All BMW engineers seem to care about is designing the drive train.

The good news is that the engine will last forever as long as you don't overheat it due to the crappy cooling system. :)

Interesting. I didn't know that, but on the E39, the BMW mindset seems to be similar in that it's really a PITA to set things up because they don't want you to touch it, where you're "supposed" to fine-tune adjust temperature only by adjusting the "mixture" of hot and cold air.

So it's the same BMW mind set on the E39 as you mentioned for your X5.

In the E39, you set the "desired" passenger/driver temperatures with a multi-button-push method that you don't want to do every day. And then you're supposed to leave that passenger/driver temperature setting forever and not touch it again.

What that means is that you can't set the interior temperature at the time you start the vehicle. The computer figures it out based on whatever it bases it upon (probably the delta between ambient and your permanent setting).

Then, almost the way you mentioned above where you "heat the AC" air, you're "supposed" to control the fine-tuning of the temperature merely by letting the computer do all the work where all you do is twist the one cold/hot blue/red knob that adjusts the portion of hot air and cold air coming out.

So you don't have the kind of easy twist-knob controls like most cars have. It's fine if you really don't want to adjust the temperature, but if you want to adjust the temperature, it's a dozen button presses. Sigh.

I never heard that, but maybe that's the reason.

Yes. But. You probably test smog/mileage with the AC off. :)

I didn't know about that.

BMW engineers are a strange lot.

All cars with AC essentially do that. It's how you get the fog off the inside of windows when it's cool outside. Even though AC is not needed the compressor runs, the air gets chilled, removing the humidity, then warmed back up.