Needed: A unit that would allow remote manual operation of a standard household Hot Water Recirculating Pump from up to six locations within the house; i.e., kitchen, bathrooms, utility room, etc., anywhere hot water is needed, eliminating the need to run the hot water tap until the hot water arrives. This is the alternative to a timed or constant running Hot Water Recirculating Pump.
Said he is going broke having to keep the hot water running all the time.
Any of you guys have an experience with this kind of thing?
I am not so lazy as that, but I put a timer switch in the kitchen (close to the water heater) so when I want to take a shower, I crank it for 5 or 10 minutes, then it shuts off.
They make some things that are flow sensors which turn on the pump, but that would not work unless you are smart enough to just turn it on to flow/start pump, then turn it off because you know what is happening with the pump. The rest of your household will not get it.
So, you could put a switch at each of six locations, but that seems silly to me.
Needed: A unit that would allow remote manual operation of a standard household Hot Water Recirculating Pump from up to six locations within the house; i.e., kitchen, bathrooms, utility room, etc., anywhere hot water is needed, eliminating the need to run the hot water tap until the hot water arrives. This is the alternative to a timed or constant running Hot Water Recirculating Pump.
Said he is going broke having to keep the hot water running all the time.
Any of you guys have an experience with this kind of thing?
Many thanks,
-T
Number one You should consider cost. Cost for installation and cost heating water because running all the time heat loses through a pipes, will need to be made up at all time. Unless you go into sophistication with regulators, high temperature pump and pressure switches Tst. ETC. And Perhaps high temperature Silicon impregnated foam Insulation. You are asking for very expansive setup.
Needed: A unit that would allow remote manual operation of a standard household Hot Water Recirculating Pump from up to six locations within the house; i.e., kitchen, bathrooms, utility room, etc., anywhere hot water is needed, eliminating the need to run the hot water tap until the hot water arrives. This is the alternative to a timed or constant running Hot Water Recirculating Pump.
Said he is going broke having to keep the hot water running all the time.
Any of you guys have an experience with this kind of thing?
Many thanks,
-T
Number one You should consider cost. Cost for installation and cost heating water because running all the time heat loses through a pipes, will need to be made up at all time. Unless you go into sophistication with regulators, high temperature pump and pressure switches Tst. ETC. And Perhaps high temperature Silicon impregnated foam Insulation. You are asking for very expansive setup.
This idea was popular years ago when energy was cheap and they did not even use a pump. It will thermal siphon if you have a multi story home with the water heater in the basement. You just plumb an extra pipe from the hot water in the upstairs bathroom back down to the bottom of the water heater. It can be a little 3/8" copper tube. My dad did it at our house in the 50s.
normally open pusgbutton switches wired in parallel to control a low voltage relay to run the pump - and possibly a solenoild valve to prevent backflow with the pump shut off.
Our water heater is about 40 feet from our master bath. Without a pump it takes about two minutes for hot water to reach the shower. That's a lot of water going down the drain just waiting for hot water.
So, I installed a simple hot water recirculating system in our house. The pump is located at the hot water heater, and I have a small 1/2" line that returns back from the furthest shower. With the pump running we get hot water in less than 5 seconds.
Our pump is on a timer and only runs a few hours in the morning, and a few hours in the evening, during the times we are most likely to need hot water. Our pipes are located below the floor, but above the insulation. So any heat loss just helps heat the house. We are all electric (heat, hot water, lighting, etc.) and I have not noticed any significant increase in our power usage compared to before we installed the recirculating pump.
You could certainly install manual switches in each room instead of using a timer. However, if the pump is still back at the water heater, you'll still have to wait for the water to reach the faucet whether it's pushed by the pump or standard water pressure. The point of the recirculating pump is hot water is already at the fixture ready to go.
If the pipes are accessible, you could reduce heat loss by installing foam pipe insulation.
You might be able to relocate the water heater so it is closer to the rooms that use hot water the most (typically bathrooms).
Or, you could install a second water heater to serve rooms on the other side of the house.
You could also install small point of use water heaters. This could give you 5 gallons or so of hot water for things like washing hands, or rinsing plates. If you need more hot water than that, you would have to wait for the hot water to reach the fixture from the main water heater.
Of course, you would need to run new wiring and plumbing if you add or relocate water heaters.
Running a home hot water circulator continuously is stupid/expensive. Putting pushbuttons at each bathroom/kitchen doesn't have to be, but it isn't going to solve the delay problem, just reduce the waste of water which may or may not be a concern. It doesn't solve the delay problem becuase the typical recirculating pumps push about 1/2 the volume of water that a tap draws, so they take twice as long to bring the hot water as running the faucet will. If you are trying to retrofit something and running wires is a concern, look at Zwave devices hooked up to a time delay relay.
We have a timer set to run for 90 minutes first thing in the morning. That covers the usual shower range for the household. 60 minutes around 6PM to cover kitching rinsing around dinner time, and 60 minutes around 9PM to cover the dishwasher, evening bath use.
Covers 80% of the usual need and live with the occasional unusual need by running the faucet.
If you are building a new house, pay attention to the plumber and how he's running the loop for hot water. Ours decided to run through all the bedrooms and then to the kitchen last. Not the most optimal route as popup demand is usually in the kitchen.
I have a friend who bought a house that was built by an architect, and it has loads of bells and whistles, including this. I've thought a little about potential cost, and I thought about sending her this thread, but I'm not going to do that unless there is an easy solution.
Not only that, but the pump was broken when she bought the house, and the home inspector didn't notice it. So she ended up spending hundreds of dollars for a new pump.
Or that the generator didn't start automatically, iirc.
Well, in the winter it's like having electric heat, which is probably more expensive than the main heat, but at the second half of spring and the first half of fall, the waste heat is a total waste, and when it's hot enough for AC it increases the AC bill. In fact, it gets hot enough for AC earlier because of the heat from the constantly reheated water pipes. Would it help and be worth it to use plastic pipes?
And expensive too. After living in a ranch house and having cold water at the far end of the house**, the first thing I did when I got here is insulate the hot water pipe to the 2nd floor bathroom, where it showed in the basement, about half the total length. It didn't make any difference because it still cooled off while I slept for 8 hours or went to work for 8 hours, or just went downstairs for 8 hours. I think water in plastic pipe would also cool off in 8 hours.
**There the whole pipe was avaiable for insulation except that the crawl space was a big mud hole, sticky mud that stuck to my shoes. I went down there once the first year, and never again for the next 8.
If the goal is to save energy and waste as little water as possible while at the same time having warm - hot water available quickly, then I would ensure the hot water pipes are as well insulated as possible and put a timer on the pump and try running it for 5 minutes every 30
- 60 minutes. That will keep warm water in the pipes but not run the pump continuously and save a tremendous amount of energy.
The wasteful aspect of the above solution is you will be dumping the cool water from the pipes back into the hot water heater, reducing the temperature causing it to fire up.
This should give your customer a good ROI with a reasonable compromise in function and not represent a huge project.
If you want to give him exactly what he asked for there exist remote control AC outlets, install one for the pump and buy multiple remotes. I don't think this is a great solution as you will either need to put a run timer on the pump or the customer will need to remember to shut off the pump when he is finished, this would be a problem when washing dishes or clothes. It would also mean he will have to wait for the water to circulate and or waste the water that has been sitting in the pipes.
I haven't done this yet but I am planning it. I have a community well for water and individual septic system. Running lots of water down the drain to get hot water is not especially good for the septic system. My plan is to use a water solenoid to dump water outside until it measures a warm temperature. By outside, I was going to dump it into one of the downspouts so it will follow the underground pipe to where it just trickles down the hillside. This would be triggered by a motion detector in the remote bathroom. As soon as the water reaches a warm temperature, probably 110 or so, it would close the solenoid. I might put in dual solenoids so if one gets 'stuck' the other will not just let the water keep running. And, also a 'sanity timer' which would only allow the solenoid open for a max of a few minutes. It's in my head but haven't done it yet. In my case, it's not wasting water as the water goes back to where is came from. Actually, it's the same as dumping it into the septic tank, except that it will be automated and will not put a load on the septic leach field.
Have an electrician (EEs aren't smart enough for this job) wire the recirculating pump to bathroom motion sensors.
When you enter the bathroom, the motion sensor turns the pump on. By the time you squeeze out a brick or two and you're ready to wash the digested potato salad from under your finger nails, the water should be hot.
It almost sounds as if the OP and you are looking for wet (and hot) version of a "perpetual motion machine" ;)
Why not just go with a Watts recirculating pump and install the bypass at EACH point of use rather than just the furthest point from the hot water heater?
or
formatting link
The electrical draw is nominal, installation relatively easy for a homeowner with moderate skill set, and we waste no water.
If you REALLY want to be anal about it and not have it run other than when you decide you want it running NOW, you can jerry-rig a wireless remote to the unit and put a transmitter, like a garage door opener, near each point of use.
I installed one several years ago and it's worked just fine. We have ours on the built-in timer with a good-sized window of when we anticipate we're most likely to want hot water available at the tap immediately.
The bottom line on these things is they save water and waste energy in the summer time. In the winter you are heating the house anyway so the heat is not wasted. (in places where you heat the house in the winter) You can get very high efficiency pumps so that is moot and again the energy ends up heating your house anyway. Summer with the A/C on is the worst case lose/lose to save a little water. It still may be worth doing if you are in a dry place like California where they are basically out of water but energy is expensive there too. Remember we will run out of water long before we run out of oil.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.