Help me figure the cost to charge a Chevy Volt in my town?

[RickH]

Can someone help me, I'm trying to win an argument at work Monday morning...

At 15 cents per killowatt hr, a charger running on a 220 volt branch drawing 16 amps continuously for 5 hours will cost how much?

The above dollars divided by the expected 40 miles (on all electric drive) should tell me how much money per mile it will cost to use up that electricity (or coal in my area) as motion.

The remaining 280 or so mile range of the car will be on all gas from the measly 9 gallon tank at a supposedly (probably overrated) 33 MPG. So I can figure out that the dollars per mile running on gas will be approx 10 cents a mile at $3 gas prices here.

I'm just trying to figure out what the electricity costs on a per mile basis for a 40 mile charge will be here. 40 miles is being too kind considering that in cold weather GM says you may only get 25 miles out of the charge. Or even lose half the charge while you sit in work with the car sub-freezing outside.

TIA

[Dean Hoffman]

220 volts times 16 amps = 3520 watts or 3.52 killowatthour. Multiply by 15¢/kwhr = 52.8¢/hour. It looks like $2.64 for 5 hours.

[krw]

$2.64, assuming a purely resistive load.

$.066

Your gas is expensive.

You'll "save" about three cents a mile, at least until the state figures out another way of taxing you. That's, of course, also ignoring the initial cost.

[RickH]

Our gas is as cheap as anywhere, but gas taxes high.

GM says 25 to 50 miles, but I would think the terrain and temperature would play a large role.

The up-front sticker premium cost for the vehicle itself still cant be re-couped in a reasonable lease or years of ownership by the amount it is saving. But I did think the power would cost more than $2.64, thats not too bad. Basically you are getting the energy output of a gallon and a half of gasoline (in this car) for that $2.64 worth of electrons. It's just that 5 hour thing and all the losses going from mining, to shipping the coal, to the coal burn, to generator, to batteries that the system as a whole is essentially wasting at each energy modality change step.

[aemeijers]

IMHO, right now, plug-in electrics are in the stage of 'if you have to ask, you can't afford it'. Let the rich yuppies buy them for the first five years, and pay for the ramp-up and beta testing. Early Adopters always end up paying twice what the normal person a few years later pays. We are just now getting toward end-of-design-lifespan on the Gen I Hybrid cars, and I have to wonder if the cratering sales of those is related to real-world promises not kept about range and durability, or simply to the sky-high costs to play.

[JimT]

I'm not entirely sure of the message you're trying to convey but hybrid sales in Austin TX are as brisk as ever. We have almost 50k on our 2005 Prius and it's a dependable car that gets amazing gas mileage. The cost of it was about the same as a Camry. Not one problem. The thing is built solid.

I was skeptical when we bought it but my wife really wanted it and it turned out to be a very good decision so far. I'm a big believer in not buying the "new model" but the Prius had been around for a few years when we got ours. On the Volt I think I'd wait a few years. Plus, I hear they cost much more than a Prius.

Jim

[Ed Pawlowski]

wrote

I drive about 22,000 miles per year so potential savings are $660 a year. The "premium" over a comparable sized car is at least $12,000. I'll break even after only 18 years.

[krw]

Where? The price includes the taxes. It's not like you have a choice. I just filled up at $2.59 yesterday. You have forty cents in additional gas taxes?

Certainly, though it depends on how they run the batteries. AIUI, they're very conservative in the charge cycle limits to extend battery life. They may be playing games with this for more range in cold weather.

Power companies are pretty efficient. You won't come close and, of course, their fuel costs are a lot lower.

[mike]

I'd like to see the math on that one. Stated another way, send me $12,000 and I'll gladly return $660 per year for 18 years. Break even...right?

[Caesar Romano]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 23:39:00 -0800, mike wrote Re Re: Help me figure the cost to charge a Chevy Volt in my town?:

Well, 12000/660 = 18.182 so he's assuming a discount rate of about 0% which is correct for the economy the Fed has set up (and which will lead to inflation and another speculative bubble).

[HeyBub]

What difference could the cost possibly make; it's for the children.

Plus the smug factor.

[aemeijers]

On 11/13/2010 10:55 PM, JimT wrote: (snip)

50k should be maybe 1/4 through the design lifespan of a car. If it is still running fine at 200k, and still has the original battery pack, then the car may be interesting. For those of us who are cheap SOBs and/or live lower on the food chain, brand new cars are not an option. (I never understood people who calmly accept ALWAYS having a car payment. Pay one off, and immediately buy another one. If I can't write a check for a car, I don't buy it.)

As to Hybrid sales tanking- I'm just going by what the business sections in the Detroit newspapers say- I have no way to personally verify. I certainly don't see many on the road here in SW MI.

[JimT]

All could very well be true.

I seriously doubt the battery is going to last until 200k but they are lasting longer than expected. The battery is covered for 100k and the price we were quoted for replacement was approx. $3k. I figured it would drop in price. Right now they (Toyota) isn't sure how long they last, last time I checked.

I'm with you on car payments. The Prius has been paid off for quite a while now and I drive a 98 Tacoma I bought used. I'm sure if we buy another hybrid we'll pay cash. We've been "cash only" for quite awhile now. The only loan we have is our mortgage and I'm working on that one.

Jim

[Ed Pawlowski]

They are just raw numbers. You'd also have to factor in three battery packs in that time adding another $9000 or 13 more years and that means two more battery packs for $6000 or another ten years.

In any case, you know what I was alluding to.

[Steve Kraus]

Save me the trouble of researching this elsewhere.

Is the Volt an electric car that happens to carry around an engine- generator set? Or is it a plug-in hybrid?

Yes, I know technically former would also be a type of plug-in hybrid but what I mean is whether the propulsion is all-electric and the engine ONLY makes electricity when needed or whether when it's running it drives the car with a mechanical connection into the transmission just as is the case with the Ford and Toyota hybrid systems.

PS: I'm betting when all-electric cars like the Leaf hit the market some people are going to be doing aftermarket modifications to add gen-sets to them to extend the range and prevent strandings.

[dpb]

RickH wrote: ...

That assumes full power draw that entire 5-hours; I'd reckon it doesn't pull close to that for a significant fraction of that time.

So, that part's an overestimate of cost but US nominal voltages are

120/240V so that using 220V is underestimating so it probably about balances out...

--

[Dean Hoffman]

A plug in hybrid from what I understand. I guess GM was fudging on this issue a bit. The engine will directly drive the wheels at times.

[Jim Yanik]

Smitty Two wrote in news:prestwhich- [e-mail]:

There would have to be enough outlets available all across the parking lot,or electric-only spaces,most likely the latter. also,who pays for the charge?

Vandals could also unplug your car on you while you're at work.

[RickH]

Yes in Chicago that is about the amount of the taxes close to .50.

[Steve B]

Biggest trouble with these is their 40 mph range, tin can safety, and slow speeds. Some electric cars go faster and farther, up to 1,000 miles, but they haven't been able to figure out how to make that long of an extension cord yet.

If we all were driving them, it would be a different thing. But I see people driving around in these tin cans with normal sized cars, and just hope they have their wills made out. Even a VW Beetle would be able to push one around.

Just me. I'll keep my Ram 2500 diesel.

Steve

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