I have an old Singer furnace, model GL1406, which I'm told is over 30 years old (I've owned the house for 23 years). Except for two recent minor electrical problems which cut off power to the blower motor, the unit has been working fine. I have been told, however, that the blower bearings are not in great shape and I should get a new furnace and it would be a lot more efficient. Our gas bills, in NYC, have been very high lately, but is it worth $4500 for a new Carrier 80% efficient furnace + $800 for a "by-pass humidifier" to gain that efficiency? Prices include installation and readapting ductwork, plumbing and electric. Which other brands should I consider?
Get bids 4500 may or may not be high, but getting an 80 % in your location is foolish with future gas prices trends. Look at 94.5% efficient units, you dont mention your gas heat cost.
I'b be more concerned with the contractor. I'd get some more estimates and also strongly consider getting a 90%+ furnace. With energy prices likely to climb even higher, I think the incremental cost is already justified. I don't know what kind of re-adapting is required to put in the new unit, where it's located, etc. But the tip off that something is wrong here is that this guy wants $800 for a bypass humidifier that's being installed at the same time as a new furnace? You can get a top of the line Aprilaire 700 (which I highly recommend as opposed to the bypass type) for $225 retail and installation, especially at the same time as a furnace is not very difficult. IMO, $800 is a rip off.
BTW, does that $4500 include air conditioning? I sure hope so!
Yes it is time for a new one because of furture gas prices.
I would concider a 90% afue or better.
$4500 + $800 for the humidity control may be too much as the group says but what is too much for your area. Get you a second bid to just check to see what too much is. i don' t know the prices in your area and this $4500 might be normal for i don't know.
The price of a job is only about 1/2 of the job but the other 1/2 is the professional that will do a good job. So be more looking at what company does the job than the price of it.
I am with the rest. The price sounds too high, get more estimates and do look for a more efficient furnace 80% is low by today's standards. I would not go below 90%
Efficiency for a furnace is defined somewhere and shouldn't be used differently by a furnace salesman. It relates to how much heat is produced for a given amount of fuel. If a humidifier increased effiiciency, then my furnace that is 27 years old would have high efficiency because I have installed a humidifier.
Yeah, can't believe he really lives on the east coast. It's only really humid here July/August. And humidifier, as you pointed out, is useful in winter, when without one, with it cold outside, the inside humidity can get very low. Maybe he likes getting static shocks?
Hi, I know but over all as a heating system if less gas is used it's same as better efficiency, isn't it? Efficiency is ratio between energy input vs. output. Theoretical maximum is 1(100%). Where I live, government cushion, the gas price increase. No matter how high it goes, at certain price and on, government picks it up in the form of rebate directly to utility company. During heating season this policy is in force.
Well, thanks everyone for replies. Yes I though $800 quite high for a humidifier. My plumber who seems very honest recommended the hvac company as being honest, but I'm not sure as hvac man keeps saying he's honest. I definitely will get other bids and look to a higher efficiency unit. As for wanting a humidifier with a forced-air system, my house sure feels dry during heating season so that's a definite plus for me. And no, the $4500 does not include AC. No one mentioned other brand furnaces, my neighbor had a Trane installed a couple of years ago for around $3500.
Well, thanks everyone for replies. Yes I though $800 quite high for a humidifier. My plumber who seems very honest recommended the havoc company as being honest, but I'm not sure as hvac man keeps saying he's honest. I definitely will get other bids and look to a higher efficiency unit. As for wanting a humidifier with a forced-air system, my house sure feels dry during heating season so that's a definite plus for me. And no, the $4500 does not include AC. No one mentioned other brand furnaces, my neighbor had a Trane installed a couple of years ago for around $3500.
Don't worry about what brand furnace you end up with. The most important part of the deal is the tech who will help pick the right equipment and size and installation for your specific situation. A good tech will choose good equipment for you. Brand names are not always an indication of quality.
I stress - The installation is the important part.
Get a couple more estimates. Google the equipment offered to you and educate youself about which features of the units are important to you. There are many things to consider besides price. Noise level is one. Efficiency is another. There are a few manufacturers that make 95% efficient furnaces and they will get you a tax credit. Trane is not one of those manufacturers. Don't be hasty and don't be afrain to ask specific questions.
Your furnace works fine. The only critical factor to merit a furnace replacement is if the heat exchanger is cracked and lets in toxic combusted air into the house air circulation. Only then is it mandatory and more economical to replace the furnace than to replace the heat exchanger.
My Inter City gas furnace is 30 years old and looks as new as the day it was installed. I had been coughing last season whenever my furnace fired up. I asked the gas company for a FREE furnace inspection. Your gas company should have a similar service. The technician gave it a OK but said that the heat exchanger was already getting old. Call for another inspection in the future if I suspect anything. He also noted that I had put the fan in backwards. It will work but won't blow that efficiently. Its easy to take out the fan and turn it around to rotate the correct direction.
I spent $350 to get the furnace ducts cleaned, the only time in 30 years, and my coughing fits stopped.
25 years ago I swapped the 1/3 HP furnace blower for a 1/2 HP one from my table saw. (I upgraded the table saw to 1 HP.) That motor has been humming without trouble up to today. When I did the swapping I also took out the squirrel cage blower fan to clean it. Reassembled the stuff and it worked fine. After about a year's running the furnace had an annoying thunk everytime the fan started or stopped. So I tightened the fan belt, oiled the bearings and it will work fine.
This went on for 4 years until the thunks were rather disturbing and I decided to take the fan out to clean it as well as check the mechanism. The noise must be related to the fan as that was the only moving part. The motor was fine. I found the bronze sleeve bearings ovalled and the fan shaft worn and gouged quite deeply. I had overtightened the fan belt. The tension wore into the bronze bearings. Adding lube oil retained the metal filings to create an abrasive slurry that gouged into the steel fan shaft.
The bearings are available from any appliance repair supplies shop. They are meant to run without lubrication. Frankly the heat in the fan chamber would distill off the light oil faction and leave a gummy residue that is no good for lubrication. My 1/2 HP motor would have overcome any frictional resistance without trouble where a 1/3 HP motor might have overload burn out. The shaft is just be a 3/4 inch diameter steel rod. The repairs were quite simple and can be managed by anyone who is not all thumbs.
My advice for you is to get your gas company to give your furance an inspection. He does not do repairs and has the obligation to give a professional opinion on the safety aspects of your furnace. He also has the obligation to report any serious furnace safety problems. Besides gassing yourself your house can catch fire and burn down the neighborhood in the process.
Take apart the blower fan assembly anyway and do a thorough clean-up of that chamber. Obviously you do this only in the warmer months when you no longer need the furnace running. You will be amazed at the gunk and dust coats that had accumulated. Vacuum first. For stubborn oilsoaked dust use varsol to wipe them off. A wet cloth and maybe some soap should remove the rest. Then leave the chamber as clean bare metal. Any oil or other coating will just attract dust which will be baked onto the chamber walls. Much of the respiratory problems during winter likely arise from the dust and gunk buildup lurking inside trhe furnace.
The fan motor bearings are meant to run dry. My fan motor has been running for more than a decade now without trouble. I check and clean the fan chamber every three years or so. Do not add lube oil (ref. abrasive slurry above). Set the hinged motor such that the standoff screw will just hold the motor against the stop. The fan belt tension should be from the weight of the motor, not by tightening the standoff screw.
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