Fridge Runs Excessively

[Chet Kincaid]

Here's the countervaling point, however. Bad door seals would make the machine work a lot harder. There should be lots of hot air coming off the condenser (which is fan-cooled). In fact the condenser is barely warm at all and the air coming off it barely any warmer than ambient air.

FWIW, the compressor dome is hot but not excessively. I can place my entire hand on it and hold it there for a dozen seconds before it becomes uncomfortable. (Real scientific, I know.)

That still doesn't prove low charge as there could be any number of things wrong such as a poor compressor, an internal clog, etc. None of which is worth repair on an older unit like this.

And even if the charge was low, there's the question of where it's leaking and how long will a recharge last.

Taping around the seals as much as I could and leaving it that way all day seemed to have little effect.

Anyway, that's where things stand.

[TimR]

I dunno then.

Door seals would leak a small amount of air, so the amount of heat rejected would be small. But I don't picture a compressor running "just a little." It can't really run slow, can it? And yet without enough charge it shoul dn't hold temperature at all, yet it does. A bad thermostat would result i n it getting too cold, unless a massive air leak. So, I admit defeat.

When I had my main refrigerator repaired (it needed a new transfer unit bet ween freezer and fridge section) the repair guy noticed the door seals were old. He taped them back together. He said the maintenance agreements nev er cover door seals, and it would cost about $200. He also said I could bu y the seal and try to put it in myself, but it was a pain in the butt even for experienced repair techs, it just doesn't want to fit into the little s lot.

I just replaced my small one (18 cu ft) in the basement. Holy crap, it was hard getting the old one out and up the stairs. The new one is much light er.

[Chet Kincaid]

TimR wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I don't mean the compressor was running slow. I think the compressor is doing what it is paid to do but it's running nearly 24/7 to do it.

Air off the condenser used to be very warm; now you can barely tell it's warmer than ambient. If it was door seals there should be at least as much heat to pump out as normally plus the added load from the leaky seals.

It need not be low charge. From what I gather R134a machines can run at partial vacuum at the temps found in a freezer so if there was a leak on the low side, the system could be compromised by air getting pulled in. I could open up things and look around and see if there is any suspicious joints. Of course that would mean evacuation and charging if the break can be repaired at all.

Lots of possibilities. Few that would be worth pro repair. So I guess anything is worth a shot if the alternative is replacing it entirely.

[trader_4]

I agree with your analysis. I can see leaky door seals making it run more than usual, but it doesn't fit with it running 24/7 and the condenser being barely warm.

[Micky]

Well I'm no authority, but that sounds like low freon or a bad compressor. What are compressors like when they are bad? Do they work at all? Do they make a different noise? I don't know.

A) if adding a little bit helps, why are you calling a repairman next? Because you don't have a guage.

B) Are you sure you will put the valve where the repairman will accept it? How did you come up with the location.

Other questions, Is it easier for the compressor to run when it's low on freon, since it doenst have so much gas to compress? If it is easier, does that lower the electricty used anywhere near as much as the fridge cooling goes down. That is, now that it runs almost all the time, are you using a lot more electricty than before, or only a little? It would use the same amount if it weren't for overhead in more than one place, so I don't know how much more it would be using now. Will the Kill-a Watt meter work with something as big as a fridge. If so, you could compare your fridge to a good one and see how much electricity is being used extra.

[Micky]

Mine are 37 years old and not leaking afaict but I will try a dollar bill. What should I do with the dollar bill?

About a foot of the seal is cracked opne on the side, but nothing has fallen out and when the door is shut, it all compresses and I don't think that crack means any air is getting out, or that it's conducting warmth in. Can I use a kll-o-watt meter on something this big.

Yeah, the univeral replacement is over 100 iirc. A lot for a simple piece of rubber and stuffing. Though I haven't checked very thoroughly.

[Micky]

I'm not saying at all that this is the OP's probelm.

But repair clinic should count the number of hits for me, in stead of making me do it. There are 50!!! though some vary only by color, and

6 are not avaliable. . (I guess the law that they be white has been repealed. )

Still htey vary from 30 to 145, though most are 70 to 95, and the good ones are long and require special shpiping. I guess t hey are stiff and the cheap ones roll up.

I think I remember now that my own fridge doesn't have the oem part available. I'm glad I can get what I need for less than 100. Maybe i'll get almond color or pecan color or walnut and pretend I've remodeled my whole fridge.

BTW, on three occasions soemthing was stuck in the little fan, for weeks each time, and I thought that would make it run hot and wear out sooner, but it doens't seem to have happened.

[Micky]

The instructions I had for a car say the car sould be running, and I think that included when you first hooked up the can. I'm not sure why that would matter however, except that you can't get much in when the car isn't running.

You have a point. The air coming off the condenser should be warmer almost immediately.

When I had a parathyroid gland removed, they measured my PTH during the surgery, which was only 30 minutes iirc, and it had already gone down.

OT, but I had a can I only used part of, and I left it with the tapping-valve on for I think it was a year or more. It still had pressure, so I think it hadn't leaked at all.

[bob_villain]

...you're rambling again...meds?

[Chet Kincaid]

Just being cautious because the temps involved might have the evap running at part vacuum. Would run it while adding anything. Don't want air sucked in.

[Chet Kincaid]

So I had a dream about this.

In my dream, EPA regs did not apply to this situation.

In my dream, I put a piercer on the compressor stubby (installing while off).

In my dream I had all sorts of hoses, gauges, and adapters.

In my dream it barely read any pressure and went to near zero when I started it up.

In my dream I put in a bit of gas from little can.

In my dream, I thought the air coming over the condenser warmed up a little.

In my dream, a tube in the area where I previously wasn't even sure if it was high side or low side got cold and started dripping condensation.

However, in my dream, it had little effect on temps or non stop running.

In my dream, the aforementioned tube was iced over by morning. (In my dream I advanced the timer to put it into a defrost cycle.)

In my dream, I wasn't sure if I accomplished good or evil.

In my dream, as well as in reality, if this really is a level issue and I just don't know what I'm doing, I would gladly call in a pro.

In general, I'd call for pro help IF there's a chance they can do something that is worth doing on this machine. In the best of all scenarios, I'd rather fix than replace.

[trader_4]

IDK why you're so fixated on fixing. I'm no expert on fridges, but from experience with them and other AC like systems, once you have symptoms like this, it's usually big trouble. With a home central AC or a car, it could be a Schrader valve, some Freon leaked out, it can be easily and cost effectively fixed. But other than that, you're down to having a leak or a bad compressor. If it's a leak, more likely it's a component like the evaporator, than a leak in a line. But whatever it is, if you have to call a pro, I see two general outcomes:

A - They diagnose it and its going to cost $400+ to fix.

B - They charge you $125 and tell you it's not worth fixing.

Is A worth it on a 20 year old fridge? If it's a $10K Viking fridge I can see it. If it's a fridge you can get for $1000? And factor in that a new fridge is probably going to save you maybe $50 a year in operating cost, it will look brand new, have new features, etc.

I replaced the 25 year old one here a few years ago. It was still running fine, but was looking dated and it also stuck out in front of the cabinets. I started looking around, realized that they have counter depth ones that are a bit taller, but hold the same capacity and fit flush to the cabinets. So, I kept my eyes open, was in no hurry and one day at Best Buy they had a stainless steel KitchenAid floor model at half price. I got a $2800 fridge for $1400. I had to do some work on the cabinets to get it to fit, but it was well worth it. It's now flush, looks like a built-in. It also has crushed ice and I have to say I like that a lot. Much better than cubes for putting in glasses. It cools instantly, evenly, and you don't have to deal with the cubes when you're drinking.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Similar experience with a washing machine. I paid $85 for him to tell me to buy a new one. That was cheaper than average. Fix would have been $500.

A while back I replace an old fridge with a newer one that was 40% larger and electric bell wend down $10 a month.

[trader_4]

My new one uses about half the old one. I used a KillaWatt on it. But I don't think I really measured it right. I just looked at power in watts when both were running under normal conditions. All I showed was that it uses half when running. It could also be that the new one spends more or less time running, hopefully less :).

[Stormin Mormon]

I had a dream, that I was tall and handsome and women loved me. Then I got up, stood on my three step stool, and started to brush my one remaining tooth.

- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .

. .

[James Wilkinson]

Do you guys still use dollar bills? Are they plastic like the Aussie ones? Ours are mostly paper, and the lowest note we have is 5 pounds (about 8 dollars), and they get all worn out as it is. Surely the dollar bills would get worn to nothing?

[Scott Lurndal]

[WWDubya]

I work with a guy whose circumference is greater than his height. I don't think it's possible for him to fall down.

[Chet Kincaid]

I just tried a little experiment. I advanced the defrost timer until I heard the machine shut down. I looked at the Kill-A-Watt and it showed a respectable 800W or so. When I looked later, it was zero.

I suppose it could be that there was no ice to melt and the heating element quickly turned off but what about the 12W or for the defrost timer motor itself? How are they wired?

Does the defrost timer motor interrupt itself until the evap is warm? But in that case it should be an either or thing...either you are warming up the evap and the timer is halted (similar to a washing machine halting the timer during fill until the select level is reached) or the temp has been achieved and the timer should proceeed back to normal mode. Zero watts I don't get.

I thought maybe I was on to something: Bad defrost heating element (or defrost timer) and evap coil chocked with ice, making internal air movement inefficient.

Guess there is only one way to really find out and that is to look. Waiting for an older fridge to cool down so I can transfer contents and open the evap area at the back.

[Stormin Mormon]

He probably contains an ounce of lead, also. Which is known to the State of California to cause cancer, or lardbutt, whichever. One of those.