Fence Post Question??

Just a quick question about installing fence posts. We would like to have a 6 foot high, Cedar wooden stockade fence installed in our yard. My question is, when putting in the fence posts for the wooden fence, do the fence posts HAVE to be set in concrete? I know that most fence companies do set the fence posts in concrete, about 2-3 feet below the frost line.

I have read many mixed reviews about setting posts in concrete, because when the posts rot out, it is a backbreaking effort to replace them because you have to dig out and lift up the heavy concrete.

I have read, as well as heard from people, that it's actually better to put the posts in a couple inches of 1 and 1/2 inch crushed rock or gravel.

So, do you have to have the posts put in concrete, or can we opt. to go with the crushed rock or gravel?

Thanks!

Reply to
MICHELLE H.
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Concrete is not mandatory provided the posts are long enough.

R
Reply to
RicodJour

Thanks! Yeah, just go to google and search "putting fence posts in concrete", and there are plenty of horror stories out there, about trying to remove an old fence post that has been set in 20 year old concrete! One of the neighbors on my street had to remove a broken fence post that was set in concrete. It took him and 2 other guys OVER AN HOUR to dig out the concrete, so that they could put in a new fence post. Made a HUGE mess too! Thats why I was asking if it is absolutely necessary to set fence posts in concrete.

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

From my experience, I would rather go ahead and put the post in concrete. I feel it give better support to the fence. I also don't use the type of concrete mx where the dry material is poured into the hole and then water is poured on top. I like to mix my concrete first before pouring it in the hole. This way I know without any doubt that the concrete is going to set up properly. I've had some guys use the dry mix method, and when the pole had to removed a few years later, not all of the dry mix had set up properly. Still dry after a fw years.

Robin

Reply to
rlz

Farmers of my dad's generation put in a lot of fence for livestock. That was largely barbed wire. Well, a lot of that fencing has been taken out since a lot of farmers no longer raise livestock. I've never heard of any of that fencing being concreted in. The dirt around the posts was simply thoroughly tamped. It's time consuming. One trick is to use fill sand around the posts. Tamp it in or pour water on it to pack it. I've never tried it so can't say how well it works.

Reply to
Dean Hoffman

Like all things, it depends. How far down is your frost line? If it's 7-8', it's unlikely *anyone* will put fence posts down 2-3' further. What sort of soil. In sand, I'd use concrete. In clay, not so much.

To prevent them from rotting, put gravel (drainage) at the bottom of the hole. Leave the posts in 4-6" of the gravel. This will tend to keep the end of the post from sucking up water. You might want to seal the ends, too.

Replacing posts is an issue. There are some tricks that should make that a non-issue, though. Such as: use board braced against the post and at an angle to the ground. Then tie a line to the base of the post, up over this diagonal, to a come along (or 4WD truck). Pull. The diagonal board causes the post to be lifted, more or less, straight up, out of the ground.

If the posts aren't going down below the frost line, put them in sonatubes backfilled with gravel. This will tend to keep the frost from heaving them (actually, it'll let them settle back after).

At the bottoms, to prevent rot. You still need several feet of post in the ground to keep them plumb.

Gravel isn't going to work. Crushed rock?

Reply to
krw

Yeah, I actually read just that on google!! That in the old days, when farmers had livestock, they didn't have time to go around all day long and cement every single fence post into the ground, on acres and acres of their land. I read how they would just dig out a hole, put the post into it, backfill it with dirt, and then pack the dirt down real good all around the fence post.

Reply to
MICHELLE H.

Yeah here is one of the links a saw where people debate whether to use concrete or not. In the middle of the page is the guy who talks about using "crushed rock" in the hole around the post, and he claims he's never had a problem.

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Reply to
MICHELLE H.

I have built cedar fences 5 times in my life time. Never used concrete. Main thing is good drainage.

Reply to
Tony Hwang

Crushed rocks mixed with little bit of magic sand is VERY good. Bag of magic sand is quite a bit more expensive than ordinary sand.

Reply to
Tony Hwang

Close, but not quite. One puts the post in position, then throws in a couple, three shovels of dirt. Tamp that thoroughly. Throw in a bit more dirt. Tamp that thoroughly. Repeat. Repeat..............until the hole around the post is filled to ground level. It takes time and work to set a post solidly. I've set a lot of posts for electrical panels in my job. I used to set them as described above. It's easier to use bags of premix concrete. I dump about half a bag of that in the hole and tamp it. Dump the remainder of the bag in and tamp that. I use a 5/8" ground rod as a tamper. It's a lot quicker but there is the cost of the premix. I use treated posts. Those should outlast me by years.

Reply to
Dean Hoffman

A few more links debating whether to put posts in concrete or not:

1) This guy says use "gravel":

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2) People here are split 50/50. Some say use concrete, some say use "crushed rock":

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Reply to
MICHELLE H.

Here's a much better way. Use metal, galvanized, 2" posts set in concrete. Bolt the cedar 4x4s to the metal posts.

I live backed up to a 200' wide power line property. The folks on my side of the easement all have metal posts. The people on the other side all had wooden posts (why, I don't know).

When hurricane Yikes came through here three years ago EVERY SINGLE fence with wooden posts came down. Not a one on our side was damaged.

Now if the fence with metal posts needs to be replaced, unbolt the uprights and install new ones. If in the completely unusual case of having to remove the posts themselves, the posts are relatively easy to pluck out of the ground using a chain and a bumper jack.

Reply to
HeyBub

The one I built was in clay. I used cement poured in dry with water added as I poured.

If I wanted to avoid the cement, I would have still used cement at the ends, corners, and gate. You need the extra strength there.

I felt I needed the extra strength because I frequently have large limbs fall out of trees. I didn't want one limb to take out the whole fence.

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If I end up pulling one out, I'm sure I can deal with the extra work of getting the cement out.

Since you are having this installed, go with what the installers recommend.

Reply to
despen

Hey Bub has it right. You want the base for any long-term upright fence set in concrete if there is any wind and you are building an ordinary-looking fence. Only fences for stringing barbed wire don't have a high wind-resistance concern. Using permanent metal base and fastening the fence to the upright is the sensible thing to do.

Reply to
hrhofmann

fence posts NEVER are set two to three feet BELOW the frost line. Maybe

2 to 3 feet below the surface max. Typical 6 foot fence would be set 3 feet max deep hole. Anyone who says they dig a hole deeper than 4 feet total is just a flat liar. It's just not done without a big ol' pole jockey auger like the power company uses.
Reply to
Steve Barker

here's a revelation for you all just incase you didn't know. Crushed rock IS gravel.

Reply to
Steve Barker

That depends a *lot* on the soil. It's not likely to work well in very sandy soil. You don't even need to do that in dense clay.

Reply to
krw

Mine are set a good 2 to 3 feet below the frost line. Of course the frost line is 6" here, but...

Reply to
krw

But gravel is not crushed rock. Bank run isn't a good choice.

Reply to
krw

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