Electric Problem or overloading the circuit

Nice answers to some bizarre misinformation. I would disagree only that if you have multiple breakers with a handle tie, one breaker tripping will not necessarily trip the other breaker. The NEC requirement (if I remember right) is for a common disconnect, not a common trip.

The common disconnect requirement was added in the 2008 NEC (or possibly

2005). Before that an edison circuit could have independent (and separated) breakers. AFCI requirements do effectively limit edison circuit usage.

Circuit breakers are "trip free". What you do with the handle )like propping it with a 2x4) does not keep the breaker from tripping normally.

Multiple pole breakers (not just a handle tie) do have a common

*mechanical* trip and all poles will trip together.
Reply to
bud--
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Now posting at alt.engineering.electrical instead...

Reply to
Rick

And what comes into your house must there be the standard. :-)

Not true.

A quick random sample of half a dozen of my portable power tools and kitchen appliances shows five marked "120V" and one marked "120V only". In fact, the only thing I could find in the house that's marked for 115 is an electric clock that to my certain knowledge is _at least_ forty years old.

And therefore it's the same everywhere?

Reply to
Doug Miller

Perhaps you'd like to explain how it's possible for one handle of a pair tied together to move from the on to the tripped position, while the other member of that tied pair remains in the on position...? :-)

There's no practical difference.

2008 -- and way past time, too, IMHO.
Reply to
Doug Miller
9snip]

I've heard 110, 115, 117, 118, 120, and 125 for one side. What I measure here is almost exactly 120 (it drops as low as 118 sometimes). I seem to remember reading it was 100 at one time.

Older people often say 110 and 220. I will when I'm talking to them, otherwise I sway 120 and 240.

[snip]
Reply to
Mark Lloyd

Thanks Doug.

I'd hate to live with some of wiring described in this thread! 'Splitting apart a breaker etc.' on a circuit with 230 volt wiring! Sheesh!!!!**

Reading between the lines, of the OP, one suspects something is seriously overloaded (e.g. hot tub with big 230 volt electric heaters and pumps etc.) maybe tacked on to an existing circuit and somebody dangerously adding larger breakers? But that's not Edison circuit outlets; AIUI?

BTW: First learnt they were called 'Edison' circuits on this news group many years ago. But had wired them before that; especially in our first house (1960).

We did it to obtain greater capacity from many of our duplex outlet circuits and to allow the possibility of adding small (less that 1500 watt) auxiliary heaters later. Back then power was not reliable and we depended then on a oil fired heater that did not require electrcity to run. Fifteen years later and now today the power is extremely reliable has no brown-outs and is almost 100% water power generated a few hundred miles away. That first house still in use without electrical problems to it's fourth owner. This current house (1970s) is all- electric.

We recently rewired a relatives garage. He has provided himself with

120 and and 230 volt outlets and with separate 230 volt outlets/ circuits for a small welder and a compressor. On advice from his work mates, who include industrial electricians, he has provided a sub/pony circuit breaker panel in the garage fed from the main house panel via (IIRC) a 60 amp breaker and has the properly sized wiring and breakers in the sub panel.

We also improved the garage ceiling lighting (leaving that on entirely separate breakers) and well below limits for #14 AWG 15 amp along with door opener); still wired in same manner as house was bought. Lights will stay on even if the 'working' sub panel were to trip.

** Which reminds me; we printed up and attached a warning label other day because discovered in this house we have one box that has the live wires from 'two different breakers in it'! Must investigate but seems to have the wiring for some 115 volt outlets on one breaker and a 230 volt heater via wall thermostat from another breaker also. Will also put wire into separate boxes asap. Do this because someone other than myself may unwittingly work on that box some day!
Reply to
terry

n.ca

What are the USA and Canadian limits for voltage variation from a nominal of say 117 volts?

For exam[ple: Using 117v as a base; Minus 5% =3D 111.15 (say 112v RMS) Plus 10% =3D 128.70 (say 129v RMS)

And as mentioned in some installations the higher voltage can be either 230/115 volt (Usually domestically) or 208/115 (most likely commercially and/or from 3 phase supply).

We have electric baseboard heaters that came, marked; 1200 watts at

230 volts, 970 watts at 208 volts. (The V squared divided by R =3D W thing)
Reply to
terry

.> > >>>>

BTW. Further to this discussion about higher mains supply voltages and permissible limits for variations these days; the topic has come up often in another news group that deals with vintage radio restoration etc. The more consistently higher voltages these days can have an impact on older radios that were operated back when on, say 115 volts or less. But which today often face 120 or higher. Again (for simplicity) doing the V squared business, the difference between say 113 volts and say 120 volts is almost a 13% increase (plus one sixth!) in power and therefore additional heat within an old radio. The radio restorers therefore use their expertise and various means to either further protect (extra fuses etc) and/or to reduce voltage to protect the older equipment components.

Reply to
terry

And right now, Sunday afternoon of a mild "holiday" weekend with no industrial power usage, and very little heating requirement (compared to average for this time of year) my power in Waterloo Ontario is sitting at a relatively high 117.6 volts RMS

Reply to
clare

No, it's not. It's an increase of 6.19%.

Reply to
Doug Miller

My US built 4 year old Tempstar furnace says for 115 volts AC operation.. One of my (2 way) radio power supplies says 117 volt AC in.. My compressor motor says 115/230 volts AC. (it is a year old). My Beam central vaccum says 115 volts. My stereo pre-amp says 117 volts AC. Heck, my model train transformer says 117 volts. Then most of my computer stuff says 84 - 240 volts AC or 100-240 VAC.

My experience is that 20 years ago, average voltage around here was much higher than it is today. 117 was low, and 123 was not uncommon. For the last 5-10 years if I see 120, it is high. 117 is common, and as low as 114 is certainly not unheard of.

My central air unit says 230 VAC.

Reply to
clare

I think a visit to the electrical engineering and/or calculus books might be in order. Remember that the issue is power rather than just voltage.

Reply to
cjt

An increase of 6.19% in voltage from 113 is 120 vots, but the increase in POWER would be at least 13% because the resistance stays the same, so when the voltage goes up, the current also goes up, and the power is the product of the two.

Reply to
clare

Huh? As in magnetic? What's being magnetized?

Reply to
cjt

The OP mentioned loosening the conduit fitting and getting a spark. That says to me that the conduit is carrying current.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Right, my fault -- I was just looking at the voltage. Sorry. Brain fart.

Reply to
Doug Miller

The conduit, of course -- pretty easy to happen when the hot wire of a circuit is inside a metal conduit, and the neutral isn't, or vice versa.

Reply to
Doug Miller

It could be an induced current.

Reply to
Doug Miller

I've always looked at the disparate voltage ratings on the various pieces of equipment I've stumbled across in my lifetime to be the reference point for the current and wattage specifications. There has to be a reference point if that makes any sense to you. "This is a 500 watt widget." "Oh yea, at what voltage?" When I look at a piece of gear and see the voltage/wattage spec, I always know for sure without any calculation if the facilities are going to be able to power it. The stuff adds up, since I've done a lot of primary and backup generator work, I automatically think of surge and motor start loads also. So many times I have to argue with someone who wants to plug in 3 refrigerators and 2 freezers on the same circuit because the nameplates show 3 amps. ARGGGGG!

TDD

Reply to
The Daring Dufas

So you meant resistance heating?

Reply to
cjt

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