nope, me neither. Never been asked about wiring by an insurance company,
never brought up remodel particulars whilst buying a house (and we've bought
5 in the last 2 years), never any of this anal shit people spout off about.
wrote in message
It would be dumb to not distinguish a BUILDING PERMIT from a PLUMBER'S
LICENSE. The permit was for a larger project. The plumbing inspector
refused to sign off on the larger permit, at least until his boss agreed to
override him under threat of lawsuit.
There are a couple things they _will_ do if he ignores the
notice and continues building, none of them very pleasant; the
worst involves fines and jail-time. They [the country
inspectors' office] could also make him tear it down. This
happened to a neighbor of mine that built an enclosed patio
"extension" when he went to sell his home. All that effort and
money because he also had a
The cost of a permit is nothing compared to the aggravation
(and increasing frustrations) he's going to be feeling if he
continues to ignore the order.
As others have said, he should visit the county offices with a
humble attitude. A quick purchase of the permit, set up an
appointment to have it inspected, a minor walk-through to let
the inspector point out a few "areas of improvements," and your
friend will get to keep his new structure.
We had seawall work done because the yard was washing into the channel -
with concrete anchors. The concrete that is used under water. Permit,
drawings, whole nine
yards. Inspection when the holes were dug and rods in place. Red tag
because there happened
to be water in the hole when the inspector arrived (usually two high
tides per day, of course). My
hubby was bldg. mgr. for the condo, so we did just about everything
together and I was uaually
able to keep him out of trouble. The contractor called the inspector
back when there was no
water in the hole, laid off his crew for a full day as a result, got
approval and continued. I chatted with the inspector and
found out he was the same who passed our lousy reroof. The contractor
was a nice guy, good
to work with and did good work. I found out later there was also a $50
fee for the "red tag".
While I know some inspectors are scum, I have great respect for the
authority of the city
to require min. standards. Last year the idiot (unlicensed) upstairs
burned up some of our
wiring while remodeling without a permit. City didn't do squat. Yet.
Wonder if the prosecutor
Yes that attitude always works well when dealing with city hall. NOT!!!!
They could revoke his certificate of occupancy making it impossible to sell
and possibly jeopardizing his current mortgage. After all if a bank is
holding the mortgage he is not really the true owner. If that property
suddenly becomes worthless he may not have a pot to....
If they pull the CO, he can't legally live there - he could be evicted
from his own house.
Dan, maybe you should tell him that he should keep ignoring city hall
for your entertainment. Who knows - maybe he'll be the one to piss
into the wind without getting wet. ;)
Have you talked to them and figured out what a permit entails.
Hopefully they will just double the permit fees (or whatever the
regular spanking they do) and inspect what you have but some places
(Florida in particular) will want engineered plans with raised seal
and are generally a pain in the ass if you try to draw them yourself
(I am in that quagmire as we speak)
I have just about decided to abandon the project and live with what I
have after about $500 in bureacratic bullshit without moving a shovel
of dirt. They still want "one more piece of paper" as they did in my
last 5 trips downtown.
Worst case is they will fail your foundation or something and you will
be tearing it down or doing serious remedial repairs to make them
happy. Again you may need an engineer.
That will all depend on your building department and what you built.
No matter what, you are in it now, so that "humble" approach is next
... take your checkbook.
BTW the way they deal with this in the 2 states I have lived is as a
civil court matter. Basically they sue you for not having the permit,
a slam dunk case and the "fine" is actually a judgement against the
property. They just slap a lien on you and forclose if you don't pay
up. These "suits" can actually be daily fines so it can get expensive
in a hurry. You will really have to stick your thumb in their eye to
get in criminal court (jail)
I am a Florida licensed inspector so I am required to take the law
courses every 2 years.
Rueful chuckle. About 15 years ago, my father (a residential designer of
40-some years experience at the time) tried to set up shop in Hartford,
CT, to be near his new-at-time grandkids up the road in central MA. He
found the permitting and approval process in both CT and MA to be so
onerous, that he could not get enough work to get by, and had to move
back to Louisiana (where he had had a thriving practice) within a couple
of years. It is pretty much a guild situation around there- they wanted
AIA and/or certified engineer stamps for the most trivial of remodeling
projects. Getting something stamped basically required the customer to
pay for the work twice- once for him to do the design (which the
customers always liked- he is good at what he does)- and then again for
someone with a stamp to look over and approve his plans. Guess what
priority reviewing 'outside' designs has in most design/engineering
shops? The time delays and added costs just made the whole thing
unworkable as a business model, which was pretty clearly what the locals
wanted. Do it all Their Way, or don't do it.
He went back down to Louisiana, which is thankfully less civilized, and
now, at the age of 81 (and half blind) still has more work than he can
handle designing mansions for rich doctors.
There are those in my area who do not listen to advice nor do they follow
any rules or law. Darwin tends to get these types. I read about them in the
(Fatal car accident, house burns down and no insurance, arrested, etc...)
"DanG" wrote in message
But sometimes the train leaves the track, and Darwin gets the poor
sucker they sold the home to.
Or the children of.
It is still amazing how many people manage to snuff themselves with
portable heaters or generators.
In the towns where I have lived, permits serve two purposes: First,
they, if done right, insure that safety and building code provisions are
met; Second, they alert the city to possible improvements in the
property, which can result in an increase in property tax.
So if the tax rolls show the property I'm looking at has three bedrooms
and no air conditioning, but my visit shows five bedrooms and central
air, that is an indication of unpermitted work, which will, at least,
increase the property tax when discovered. But more dire is that if I
do such work, or buy property on which it has been done, and there is a
problem with the wiring, for example, that leads to a fire, my insurance
company is going to check to see if the work was permitted, and deny
coverage if it was not.
Around here, if a homeowner has been cited for doing unpermitted work,
the government can demand that he remove it, or at least dismantle it
enough that they can do an inspection. I imagine that if the owner
stands by running his mouth, the inspection can be very thorough. If he
refuses, they pull the occupancy permit, and you have a house no one,
including yourself, can legally occupy. From there, you will probably
get to deal with a called mortgage, and possible jail time. And trying
to sell property with an unoccupiable house on it should be interesting;
he'll probably have to pay the buyer to take it off his hands.
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