Here's a silly question... so why would you pay for a permit and/or inspector to inspect work you do inside your home? Before someone scolds me keep this in mind, I am a first time homeowner and I have only been living in my home for a few months. What types of things require permits or inspectors? I recently painted some walls, replaced a toilet, and added a light fixture outside my garage. I have other things on my agenda for the next few years and I can't see why I would pay someone to inspect my work. With regards to plumbing, if you don't do it right you get immediate notification in the form of a leak. The electrical stuff seems pretty trivial to me since I am an electrical engineer with a masters degree. Although I must admit to having to look up the correct wire gauge for the spotlight I added outside my garage. A follow up question would be what if the previous owner did something without getting a permit or getting the work inspected? Would I be responsible for paying for those things?
Most areas do not need permits to paint, change a light fixture, replace a toilet, that type of thing. Any changes or additions to wiring, or plumbing probably need a permit. Any stuctural work to the home will most likely need a permit. New windows, roof, furnace in our area need a permit.
It is kind of a mixed blessing. If you do a upgrade to your house that needs a permit, and you do, the liability falls to the inspections office when they sigh off and ok the work. If you don't get and inspection, and your house burns down from a poor wiring job, or bad furnace install, good luck collecting insurance! The liability just fell on you! Many fear that it tips of the city to raise your taxes, it may. I also know of many homes that have had major remodels, additions put on, and the city tax dept never paid any attention! Pull a permit, CYA! Greg
You probably wouldn't need a permit for most home repairs, but home modifications might need permits. Some reasons for permits: 1. to make sure the contractor has done the work properly. 2. Make sure the modifications are safe. 3. Insurance companies are not in business to hand out money. If they discover you've modified your home without permits, and/or not up to code, you might be denied your claim. Remember, your house plans might be on file with your building agency and the insurance co. has access to them.
Electrical circuitry in a home is not complicated, but the codes are not intuitive, they can be tricky, and your masters degree won't help you that much. That's the reason for getting permits---to make sure the job is done to code.
Check with your inspector to find out what you need permits for and for what work has been done in the past. They would probably want the work done to code. The building agencies that I've dealt with have been reasonable in that respect. Ron
If you have that type of coverage Tony, you really ought to think about going with a different company. If your kid starts a fire in his bedroom, you are covered, if you do something stupid and start a fire with gasoline, you are covered. Regardless of what stupid thing you do you should be covered. Besides, they will probably never find the cause and they couldn't blame you if they don't know who did it.
Most people don't get permits for inside work in the west. Your local building department, city or county, can give you a list of everything that requires a permit. They may inform you verbally of all sort of stuff, but believe it only if it is included on the list. They can also tell you what must be done to meet code.
Painting, replacing windows, doors, floor coverings, walls coverings (non structural) and replacing original fixtures and appliances requires no permit in many if not mosts areas. Since you are an electrical engineer you will probably have little or no problem doing electrical work but you won't know what the code is. Nonetheless you can easily do minor stuff like adding new circuits. Anything major, even if they can't see it, should be done with a permit and inspected just to protect yourself. If you are handy you can do plumbing and construction, but you need to look at some books to see what is a,acceptable. You should also get those free sheets that big box stores and other stores dealing with the public have on electrical, plumbing, and structural changes and other areas such as insulation, concrete work, etc. This stuff should be up to date and show what is necessary to meet the code.
If the previous owner did something and it is wrong or unsafe, redo it correctly and forget getting a permit whether or not the previous owner got a permit. If you corrected the work remember it isn't your responsibility and you don't know anything about it. The point is safety for your family. Even if the work was under permit and inspected, there may be no record at the building department. So, an inquiry might result in an inspection and possibly the requirement of a permit (read money) and a following inspection even if the original was inspected and passed. That kind of stuff can get lost easily in many jurisdictions.
You might also want to find out what the fine is for not getting a permit. In my area, if you do the work without a permit and they find out they will fine you double the cost of the permit. OTOH, if it isn't visible, they will never find out. If it bothers you get the permit.
Before you believe what lots of people tell you about home insurance, check your own policy and/or talk to you insurance agent. Crappy insurance companies/agents will screw you no matter what you do, good companies will cover you no matter what you do. Anyway, why plan for a disaster, do it right, do it safely, and protect your family so that you won't have an insurance claim. Don't smoke in bed (or at all), don't get drunk (without someone watching over you), use flammable liquids judiciously, don't start fires or barbecues with gasoline, keep the house clean, vacuum the clothes dryer and vent periodically, maintain your furnace, get rid of oily rags, and don't let your kids play with matches and you will likely never see a fire. Statistically, if you have a newer single family house, it is highly likely that you will never suffer any fire damage even if you are a complete slob at cleaning and smoke in bed while draining a bottle of bourbon.
Farm and suburban out-building around here burn, mostly because people burn weeds or fields when it is windy, and houses burn when there are forests fires. Apartment house occasionally suffer some fire damage, usually directly caused by crappy clientel, but single residence houses usually burn only when the fire department sets them on fire for training purposes. A quick look at fire statistics can be rather revealing, but may lead to question of why you are paying so much in taxes for a fire district. Like many people, I pay way more per month for health insurance than I do annually for homeowners insurance, of which fire is a tiny part.
Plumbing, electrical, outside construction, decks, roofs, anthing that could increase your taxes.
Not always. Sometimes the problems take a long time to s urface. There is more to it than leaks in water lines.
BFD! Having a degree means you know how to read a book and memorize. It does not mean you have the manual dexterity to make a proper connection. It does not mean you know how to properly route a wire, mount a box, and a lot of other practical applications that must be done manually. You may or may not have those skills. In my experience, teachers are some of the worst when it comes to doing physical work. Knowing that you need a hammer to hit a nail does not mean you actually hit the target.
Chances are no one will ever find out. If everything ever done to a house was inspected the towns would have to hire hundreds of more inspectors to keep up. Don't be concerned about minor repairs on the inside. It is the thing visible that you want to cover your ass.
Kinda a tangent here, but I'd be curious to see what percentage of work done that required a permit actually did get a permit. I'm gonna guess that its below 50%
I am afraid that you are mistaken about the permit authority assuming liability. They assume no liability whatsoever.
As a previous poster said, your insurance will still cover you if you do something stupid. They won't cover you if you do something that is intended to defraud them, but mistakes are still covered, after all, isn't that the definition of accident?
So to summarize, pulling a permit transfers NO liability to the city, county, etc.
My understanding is that insurance MAY not cover any damage due to un-permitted work. Say you install an electrical circuit improperly, and it starts a fire. Then, perhaps coverage would be denied. Another example, say you install an electrical circuit improperly, and your drunk guest falls asleep with a cigarette and starts a fire. You would be covered.
Among all my friends who do electrical work around their homes, I do not know anyone who would ever get permits for simple eletrical work.
Depends on the jurisdiction. In general, large things like new roofs, new electrical panels, decks, additions, etc, require permits. Repairs and decorating don't. Like in my case, a replacement furnace doesn't need a permit, unless you are changing the type of furnace, like going from oil to gas.
As to why do people do it? Because if you don't have a permit, and the authorities are upset, you can be required to rip out all the work, get a permit, and re-do it. Or they can condemn the house as unsuitable for living in.
Call your local building department, and ask. (or visit their web site, if they are on-line like they should be these days).
If you have a condition that is wrong, you may need to pull a permit and fix it.
In general no, you buy a house as is, and the previous owners problems are now yours. That is why a pre-purchase house inspection is such a good idea, so you know what problems you are acquiring.
By "in general" I mean I'm not a lawyer that is familiar with your localities laws.
Because it's the law, and often they can spot something wrong that you missed.
Because if the worse happens and it was the result of your work and the insurance company finds out, you may find yourself without insurance to pay for the damage.
Because when it comes time to sell, you could end up in trouble.
Depends on the local laws.
Not always. It is the stuff you don't think of or know about that will cause problems. For example using two different metals in a connection without insulation, may not leak right away but come two years later, it could be a big problem.
There are a lot of things in the code, local or national that you would not think of, but if pointed out to you, at least you would be able to understand, maybe after the fire and death of a loved one.
if it was something done before you bought the house, the insurance company should have sent an inspector over when you applied for coverage. they should have told you if there is any situation(s) they have a problem with.
Example- I purchased a home where the original homeowner hired a hack to install a 6' patio door. The header was undersized and was resting on only one jack stud on one side of the door, and toenailed into an original stud on the other side.
But this is relevant only if it can be undeniably determined that your un-permitted, un-inspected work was indeed the cause of the loss.
There are certian tell-tale signs which can indicate very easily that a handy-homeowner or a hack or a professional did some added work.
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