# Does having multiple RJ45 jacks degrade the Internet signal a lot?

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 09:24:31 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee
Good.

No, it's not even close. Flight time (speed of light) is about 1ft per nanosecond. A mile would be about 6 microseconds. The best resolution you could get with ping is perhaps 0.1 millisecond. Most of the ping delay is in the CPU and attendent IP stack in the router.

Here's a spare time math problem. Calculate the area of the antenna. Estimate your maximum local wind speed. Calculate the wind load on the antenna and the mast. Tie a rope to the antenna and pull with the calculated wind load. If the mast falls over, find some guy wires or ropes. <http://k7nv.com/notebook/topics/windload.html I can't tell from here how deep the mast extends into the ground, how much concrete is in the hole, or soil conditions.

Good. That should work better than double NAT.

See the 4 screws securing the bracket to the antenna? If the pipe hits the coax connector and radio, then simply unscrew the bracket, rotate 180 degrees, re-attach, and you have an offset mount. Having the antenna mounted unsymmetrically may seem a bit odd, but it should work.
Also, verify whether you're vertically or horizontally polarized. No clue what Hilltop is using, but it should be the same. Mounting it at a 45 degree angle, as in a previous photo, will work, but not very well.
--
Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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wrote:

Duh... or, you could just add a right angle Type-N connector and just move the radio out of the way. <
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/150658853306 I have a few if you're in a hurry (i.e. before it rains).
Also: <
That doesn't look like it has much concrete in the ground. It's probably just fine when the ground is dry, but I hate to see what will happen when the ground gets wet, and the nearby tree branches start wacking the pole around. It's not going to fall over, but it might move around enough to loose the path: <
Hmmm... are you sure the pipe is 16ft long? Judging by the height of the nearby picnic table (about 30" high), the mast looks like it's about 25ft high.
--
Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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wrote:

Ummm... make that about 31ft: <
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/mast.jpg
Perhaps that might explain why you consumed so much CAT5?
--
Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 12:35:17 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Hi Jeff,
I appreciate the calculations.
You even made ME wonder if I had bought a 20 foot pipe instead of 10 feet!
It turns out that the table, because it's far away from the mast, looks deceptively small.
Here is a shot with a 3-foot yardstick and a 2-foot square next to the mast:

Here is that same shot but I moved back to where the original picture was taken:

The picnic table looks deceptively small. I'm not sure why but it must have something to do with the angles or distance.
The antenna looks to be about 15.5 feet above ground (give or take a half foot for couplings and mounts). And it's about 3 feet into the ground.
I 'could' dig it deeper if I need to as I have plenty of height.
I do agree with you - that it's still too tall (I guess I should take off the two-foot section on top). I only put it there because I bought it for the TV antenna but I'm not sure if I can get 'any' signal pointing southwest in the Santa Cruz mountains.
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On 12/30/2011 12:24 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I really recommend the right angle N. It makes it far less likely to break the wifi adapter. Incidentally, ALfa has a similar device called the tube.
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On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:25:52 -0800, miso wrote:

Good point as the Bullet M2 is a cantilevered arm with all the force concentrated at the attachment point.
But, wouldn't a short N-female-to-N-male pigtail be even better (with the bullet tie-wrapped to the mast, for example)?
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On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 01:55:41 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee

About the same as far as RF loss is concerned. Much worse if you consider water incursion. If you wrap the right angle connector, there will be no movement to break the waterproofing seal. However, with a pigtail, unless the M2 is properly secured to the panel antenna, it's gonna leak. If you're really careful to use a drip loop and plenty of slack, you might be able to secure the M2 to the mast, but I think the first time you move the mast, you're going to loose the seal.
Incidentally, my method of waterproofing is to mummify the connector using 1/2" or preferably 1" teflon pipe wrap. On top of that, apply a layer of 3M Scotch 33+ 7 mil electrical tape. All it does is hold the teflon tape in place. Spray with a thin coat of clear Krylon spray to make it UV proof.
--
Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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On 12/31/2011 6:36 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I had a temporary setup that got blown down by the wind. It was the one time I didn't use a pigtail. It smashed the Alfa 036H. The PCB has a bulge under the RPSMA connector. It also smells bad when powered up. I suspect it draws more than the allowed half an amp off the usb bus because the notebook was very unhappy booting up with the damaged unit attached.
I got the tube version. It is about \$10 extra. No adapter required, i.e. it goes right to a N connector. [Like when did that become legal?] I use the elbow. I may mount the "tube" in a metal box just to make it more rugged. I find the tube version is slightly more sensitive than the 036H that Alfa sells. Not a big difference, but a step in the right direction.

It comes with a heavy usb cable of the "extension" flavor. I have a few real watertight feedthroughs I've got from junked NEMA boxes. I don't think the scheme alfa uses is really watertight on the USB side.
Anyway, a pigtail is probably more likely to fail than a right angle connector.
I don't suggest people purchase antennas with pigtails on them. That seems like a design destined to fail.
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On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 09:08:00 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Hi Jeff,
You were totally right!
I 'thought' it was a hundred-foot run of the outdoor cable from the antenna to the house (even allowing for the ten feet of antenna).
First off, I extended the water-pipe antenna to about 16 feet; then I wrapped the cat5e outdoor cable around the water pipe like a barber shop pole! (See pic)

Then, I added about 20 or 30 extra feet for zig zagging in the yard when I finally bury it in the ground (I'm told we're not allowed to have wires going to our houses in the air out here).
Then, once inside the house at a convenient spot (see picture below) I looped an extra few feet of wire.
The total was 224 feet for that one hundred-foot run to the house! (Luckily the cable is marked every two feet so the antenna end reads 017350 feet while the end in the office reads 017526 feet.)
Here is the sequence showing my 'bright idea' trying to avoid the garage by sneaking in on an air conditioning pipe!

Likewise, that short run to the game room with tons of extra wire looped in the crawl space took another 62 feet! (from the 017528 mark to the 017590 mark).
So, you're totally right that it takes way more cable than I thought!
One mistake I made was to buy all outdoor cable. In hind sight, only half of the cable needed to be the tan outdoor quality. The rest could have been cheaper indoor plenum (blue) stuff.
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 09:38:01 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee

I'm always right (except when I'm wrong). I have a roll of nylon twine, that I've marked every 10ft, that I use for estimating cable runs (and also as a pull line). The numbers on the cable jacket are handy for calculating if there's enough cable left in the box to do the job.

Neither is suitable if you're just dumping it on the ground. What you want is direct burial cable, preferably gel filled, and possibly armored. That's not cheap, but you only will need about 175 ft of it. You won't find that at Home Despot, but might find it at an electrical supply house. However, eBay is cheaper: <http://www.ebay.com/itm/380254910507 <http://www.ebay.com/itm/190582159449 About \$150/1000ft. Watch out for shipping charges. The stuff is heavy. Notice the flakey white stuff on the wires. That's the gel. I hate the stuff.
--
Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 09:08:00 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Now I see this!
I havn't had Internet for a day as I had to disassemble everything (to follow up on everyone's advice here) and re-assemble.
Here is how I labeled the wires:

But, I like your idea of labeling the woodwork better!
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 09:41:37 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee

Well, blue ink on paper, inside a vinyl sleeve will work. The only problem is that after about 2 years, the blue ink will fade to invisible ink. I use a proper label maker, vinyl labels, and use scotch tape to attach to wire. I also don't use such long labels as bending the wire puts the label under tension, which eventually breaks. I once labeled a phone closet full for station wire, only to find a year later that all 25 labels had fallen off.

Nope. Labeling the 2x4 is for mid span identification. You still have to label the end points. Labeling the hole is also problematic if you have more than one cable through it. It's mostly a convenience when dealing with later rework.
Incidentally, when going between floors, I try to use conduit instead of just running the wires. Many reasons, but the big one is that going between floors is more difficult than horizontal runs. Where there's one cable, there's always a need for more. My own derangement has about 10 cables crammed into 1" conduit between upstairs and downstairs.
--
Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 08:52:49 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

In hindsight, since that was 5 feet of drilling (most of it air, of course), between floors, conduit would have been a good idea.
That's good advice for next time!
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On Sun, 25 Dec 2011 10:04:45 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Oh oh ...
I had already bought this tester at the same time as the cable (but I can return it as I haven't opened it yet): \$80 + tax at Home Depot Klein Tools "VDV Scout Pro Tester Kit, VDV501-809

But, I like the price of your \$15 tester MUCH BETTER!
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On Sun, 25 Dec 2011 10:04:45 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Taking all the advice into account (much appreciated!) ...
How does this proposed diagram look?

Understood.
Given the diagram referenced above, how do these numbers look?
- WISP provider antenna is on the next ridge, 2000 feet line of sight away - WISP requests I set the radio to bridge mode (Santa Cruz Mountains) - WISP asks me to set it to a given 10.0.x.y IP address - WISP asks me to set broadband router IP (WRT54G) to 10.0.x.y+1 - I don't really understand WISP provider's suggestions - but will comply - Cable is 500' of cat5e 4pr 24AWG Solid Tan CMR CMX Outdoor RoHS - Antenna is 19 dBi planar with N female connector - Radio is Ubiquiti Bullet M2 with N male connector (mounted on antenna!) - Antenna is 13 feet off the ground on a steel pole set in concrete - Cat5e cable is ~100 foot run (to be buried) from radio to garage - Angled & tubed hole is planned; drip loop on outside is planned - Extra coil of cable on inside garage wall is planned - 15 volt Ubiquiti POE is planned to be mounted in the garage - From garage, cat5e cable enters crawl space & up to office (~25 feet) - Wall plate definitely on office wall (probably 3 jacks will be used) - Jumper from wall plate to the Linksys WRT54G router input port - Output from WRT54G goes back to another jack in the wall plate - That jack is wired ~25 feet back down the crawl space to the game room - At the game room, is another wall jack - A jumper tethers the wall jack to the Wii gaming console - Optionally, the garage is similarly tied to the third jack in the office
See proposed diagram here:

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On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 12:23:05 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:

Yes. There are many feet of cable stored inside the crawl space, looped around and around and around and hanging on a nail in case it's ever needed.
The bad news is that I've more than doubled my 100 feet (it's now 224 feet from the top of the antenna to the wall plate in the office!).
Here is a picture of what's inside the wall! (I hadn't expected electricity so close!)

And, here's the (almost) finished product:

PS: Nobody mentioned that the wall plates come in three colors of white! :)
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 09:54:32 +0000 (UTC), Chuck Banshee

I wonder what the pros will say about all that extra cable. I normally leave a single loop, maybe 12-18 inches, so that I can reterminate the end if a connection fails. I don't know what the 'best practices' are.
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On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 08:04:38 +0000, Chuck Banshee wrote:

Here, to help, are 6 pictures uploaded to simplify descriptions:
1. WISP antenna currently jury rigged with patch cords & extension cables:

2. So-called "bucket router" temporarily being used to bring signal into the house wirelessly from outside:

3. Crawl space view up into the floor of the office (center of house):

4. Crawl space view over to the game room (far end of house):

5. Entry point at the office (where the office jack will be placed): www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/7212874/1024/Anonymous/cat5-questions.gif
6. Entry point of the game room (where the game room jack will be placed):

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On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 05:30:21 +0000, Chuck Banshee wrote:

Since I added more pictures to answer questions, here's the set:
Diagram of proposed setup (based on everyone's advice!) *

WISP antenna pointed at the next ridge about 2000 feet away: *

Temporary "bucket router" to bring signal into house wirelessly: *

Crawl space view up into the floor of the office (center of house): *

Crawl space view over to the game room (far end of house): *

Entry point at the office (where the office jack will be placed): * www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/7212874/1024/Anonymous/cat5-questions.gif
Entry point of the game room with box of cable proposed: *

Klein Tools \$80 cable tester bought from Home Depot (unopened as yet): *

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Thanks for all the advice!
Previously, I posted the wrong URL to the Klein tools so here's the correction with the photos:
1. Diagram of proposed setup (based on everyone's advice!)

2. WISP antenna pointed at the next ridge about 2000 feet away:

3. Temporary "bucket router" to bring signal into house wirelessly:

4. Crawl space view up into the floor of the office (center of house):

5. Crawl space view over to the game room (far end of house):
6. Entry point at the office (where the office jack will be placed):

7. Entry point of the game room with box of cable proposed:

8. Klein Tools \$80 cable tester bought from Home Depot (unopened as yet):

At this point, my WISP provider is asking me to set the radio in "bridge" mode with a certain 10.x.y.z IP address and then to set my broadband router to +1 that IP address.
So, that's my next step. If that works (it didn't when I tried it earlier), then I will begin the permanent wiring (based on all your wonderful inputs).
This is a great team - special thanks to the key posters on alt.internet.wireless (Jeff, miso, clare, Char, Charlie, Stephen, krw, et al) and alt.home.repair (trader4, Oren, willshak, et al).
You guys make the USENET work in ways the web can't compete with!