To make a long story short, I signed a contract, had a job done, and
when I went to review the job with the on site technician, I noticed
that a few pieces of the job were not done. I was assured by my
salesman (Eric Rockwood) that this was part of the deal. I was told by
the tech, that what I was referring to was NOT part of the contract. I
contacted the salesman who of course denied ever telling me this. He
made it sound as though my job was not important to him by saying "do
you think i would lie for a $2300 job??" and "I'm definitly not hurting
for a sale". I spoke with several managers in the company who basically
all gave me the same line. "is it in writing anywhere?" "we dont see it
on the contract" and then "we can do it, but we need you to sign a form
stating that we are not liable for any damage" Gee thanks guys!!! You
will do it, but then when you screw it up, i get the bill!!! I refused
final payment and got a call from the Vice President of the company,
Jerry Snyder this morning. Mr. Snyder was very rude and insisted that
his "good christian" salesman would never lie, and that he has trained
his sales people himself. He offered the same deal to me "we'll do it,
but we are not liable". I told him thanks but no thanks and that word
of mouth is a very powerful weapon. Thats how i heard about bath fitter
and actually had some friends and family interested in possibly going
with them. So, since i am not a crook, unlike Bath Fitters, I will be
sending them a check for final payment and will begin my warnings to
all here in google groups. This occured 1/2/07.
I would avoid any chain store repair place. Doesn't matter if it's
home improvement or not. AAMCO, Midas, Jiffy Lube, etc are just as
bad. And putting a tub liner in instead of replacing the tub, as
nature intended, is just plain silly.
So what did the contract include? If it wasn't in the contract, it
wasn't part of the deal and the time to have cleared it up was when you
were negotiating the contract/project scope _and reviewing the terms of
the contract before signing_ ...
Is this the first time you have done business with anyone? Before you signed
a contract you should have insisted that all the terms be put on the paper
because whatever is in that contract is what you get. Nothing more. Verbal
promises and handshakes don't mean a thing in a court of law. You screwed
up so own up to it.
you are right.maybe i did screw up. however, i was told that the
particular part of the job was part of another job that WAS on the
contract. i was told that all brass in my shower would be replaced with
chrome and that this was all part of the faucet replacement. however,
the drain and the overflow cap in the tub were not replaced. i was told
that since i got a wall and not a tub liner, it was not included.i
should have known not to trust a salesperson. after all, thats their
job, to sell.
Well, actually, those are not a part of the faucet, but are separate items.
That sounds about right to me. If your job includes keeping your desk
clean, would you assume the duties of taking out the garbage in the
In other words, it sounds like they did what they agreed to do; and
perhaps you didn't clarify sufficiently what was included.
Keep notes of any meetings; copy the salesguy back with your notes, and
cc his manager next time.
OTOH, an intelligent installer would have pointed out the mis-match, and
said, for an extra $___ we can make them all match.
Then again, an intelligent customer would have pointed out the problem,
and asked for a resolution, instead of going off on both barrels right
off the bat.
And, what, precisely, do you see as being wrong with that? You can
then accept or reject--that's the way contract negotiations work.
Clearly, the extra touches you were asking for weren't part of the
original scope of work so to expect anything more than another bid for
them seems unreasonable.
Going back to the beginning, it does seem a really experienced sales
rep would suggest the additional work to complete the job and offer it
as an option. That would be more in line, actually, with your earlier
comment about a salesman's job is to sell -- he would have undoubtedly
had a slightly larger commission from the additional scope as well.
As for liability, that should be a negotiable item -- if there's
something done that is substandard or causes damage that is
unreasonable, there should be a standard clause that covers such. If,
otoh, they're simply saying an incidental scratch in a surface from
removing an existing drain isn't covered for old work, that is also
fairly standard practice.
Again, though, that's reasonable. If it's a 40 year old pipe, it may
well be corroded and leaking. It may be held together with hair and
rust. They discover the leak. Now they're liable - for what? Fixing
the pipe? Fixing 30 years of leaking water damage? How far does the
corroded pipe go? Whole house? 20'? Should they replace 20' of pipe?
2'? Replumb your house?
It's an existing condition and as such, you as the homeowner assume the
risks. No honest contractor would assume responsibility for an unknown
If you don't trust your contractor, get a different one. But you will
still assume the risks.
I don't understand this sentence at all. If there was another job or
another contract, what did it say? The description of the work to
be done, start to finish.
I'm having trouble understanding what was done, and what wasn't done.
Also you've said what you were told. What DOES the contract say? The
description of the work to be done, start to finish.
So now you have a mixture of chrome and brass? That doesn't sound
good. It also doesn't sounnd like something you would knowingly have
agreed to. That might mean there was no meeting of the minds, which
voids the contract but leaves you paying whatever the judge thinks the
job was worth (though no more than the contract price). quantum
Is the only problem that those two things are still brass? How much
to get new brass for the parts that are now chrome? The old brass
will still be scuffed I suppose, but it's a compromise.
On 4 Jan 2007 06:01:05 -0800, email@example.com wrote:
Baloney, although it is almost never in your interest to call anyone a
liar. Just say they forgot what they said, or they are mistaken.
I watch a couple tv court shows and see a substantial number of
litigants saying "I'm a Christian" when they are plainly at fault,
sometimes when they are plainly lying.
And the person who committed the biggest crime anyone has against me,
a serious felony, told me she was a Christian.
Whether it has to be itemized in the contract or not depends on what
it is. If it is part of doing a workmanlike job, then it is implied
by the contract. For an easy example, the chrome collar around the
shower pipe that covers the hole must be installed whether specified
or not. And, the faucet cannot drip, whether it says that in the
contract or not, and one must not need a wrench to tighten it.
OYOH, a towel bar, when it looks fine without the towel bar, and you
just happen to want a place for your towel, would have to be
You haven't given any example of what about their job is not good.
That would help.
A rough measure but not one good enough for court** might be, if
someone came over and looked at the work and said, "These guys did a
bad job", you might have a case for small claims court. But if it is
just your word against theirs, you will lose, because it's your
responsibility to prove your side. You need pictures, and to
determine amount, proably an estimate from another contractor about
what it would cost to make their job look and work right.
**For court, you'll have to state and hopefully show with pictures or
somehow what moldings are missing, what parts are suppposed to be
horizontal or vertical but aren't, what is dripping,
Many/most contracts have a clause that says "This represents the
entire agreement between the buyer and seller and there are no verbal
amendments to this contract" Does yours have that? Even if it
doesn't, what other evidence do you have besides your word of other
things they said they woudl do? Or, as above, are these things that
weren't done "other things" or are they just part of doing a
workmanlike job on things they agreed to do.
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