| I am doing a test on this as we speak
| It has been going on for close to 2 years and I haven't seen anything
| unusual yet.
| This is sitting on the south side of my screen cage, out in the yard.
That looks interesting. Too bad you can't
sell it to Consumer Reports. :)
One comment: Personally I have found that
galvanized screws, equivalent to drywall screws,
can rust away. I don't think the problem is so
much the rust per se as the thinness of the
screws. They can't afford *any* rust. I wouldn't
use them at all for joist hangers because they
have little shear strength.
Similarly, I like to use coarse drywall screws for
light framing because they're easy to remove and
a lot less work than hammering. But I wouldn't use
them where strength is needed. They just don't
have anywhere near the shear strength of a 16d
The coated screws are heavier guage, though
they haven't been around long enough to know
how they hold up.
I don't have a nail gun. Sometimes I think I should
buy one, but there seem to be 3 sizes to cover
all nails. It's a lot of money and I'm always doing
different things, so it's hard to justify. (I might
frame for 1 day on a bath remodel and spend one
day doing trim, with 6 weeks of other work.)
But another hesitation for me with nail guns is that
they compress the wood as they go through. Time
and again I see where a nailgun was used to put in
twice the typical number of nails, yet they're not
holding well because they've essentially pre-drilled
a nail-size hole on their way in. On the other hand,
anyone used to using a nailgun would have a very
hard time accepting that criticism because the time
and effort they save is so substantial.
I have always used galvanized nails that are made specifically for joist
hangers. They're short (maybe 1.25 inches) but thick (like a 16D nail).
I believe Simpson makes screws specifically for joist hangers (Strong
Screws). They're harder and are designed for high sheer strength. I've
used the larger versions of the Strong Screws for seismic tie downs and
they are very strong. I've used them many times as a quick substitute for
I don't believe codes allow anything else for hangers, certainly not
drywall screws or deck screws. Not only are they weak and brittle, but
they can have galvanic reactions with different metal hangers that will
cause them to corrode prematurely.
Drywall screws are incredibly weak and brittle. Heck, they break quite
often just installing drywall. Very thin shafts and no rust resistance.
I do use the gold screws (essentially a pretty drywall screw) for quick
little projects though, like jigs or to temporarily hold something
I've been using coated "deck" screws for at least 15+ years. Some brands
are good, others don't seem much better than drywall screws. The newer 10
gauge screws with torx heads seem quite sturdy. I wouldn't use them for
building a house (too slow to drive all those screws), but use them
frequently for decks and other small framing projects.
I have a framing nailer that I use for both 16D nails for framing, and 8D
nails for siding. One gun basically covers all of my framing needs.
Of course, when I move indoors to trim work I need another gun to drive
16 gauge finish nails.
For woodworking, I use a third gun for smaller 18 gauge brad nails.
I've thought about getting a pin nailer too, but just haven't had the
need. The three guns I have seem to work fine for everything I've wanted
I can see where a palm nailer would be handy too... :)
I find the nail gun is far less likely to split thin boards than if I try
to drive a finish nail by hand. Speed is a bonus too, as is being able to
hold a board with one hand and nail it with the other. Strength is rarely
an issue for trim work, and can actually be a benefit when you need to
remove the trim for repairs or other tasks.
For framing work, you can get much better holding strength by using ring
shank nails. They probably don't have the same pull resistance as a rough
galvanized nail, but either nail is relatively easy to pull straight out.
It's best not to rely on the withdrawal strength and more on the sheer
strength. Framing nails hold things together, but nailing sheathing and
subflooring to the faces of the framing is what really keeps them from
I disagree about the nail gun. They slam the nail in with one big push
and they are a lot harder to pull out than a hammer driven nail.
People tend to use more nails because it is so easy to do.
I ended up with the 3 you allude to but one is a roof nailer. My big
framing nailer shoots up to 3.25" nails and the smaller one shoots up
to 2.5". The roof nailer shoots roofing nails. I also have an 18ga
brad nailer tho. I probably use that one the most.
I just put a deck down with 2,5" ring shank SS nails. We will see how
I watch an acquaintance install joist hangers on a new deck. Not
understanding what he was doing, I asked. He said he was using a palm
nailer. I'd never heard/seen one before, so asked him to elaborate.
It's a air driven device that hammers, in small rapid air driven
strokes, nails into wood. He was driving what looked like < 1-1/2" to
2" galvanized nails. Blew me away! 8|
Florida is the land of Simpson clips. Just about every vertical joint
in a stick built house has a clip and most have a bunch of nails.
(sole plate to stud, stud to top plate and a strap over the truss)
If you do that kind of work you get the "direct placement" adapter for
your small gun. It will put a nail in the hole every time.
| > I'm in New England. Lots of weather extremes.
| You aren't kidding. And, that's a polite way to put it.
It has its good points. I like the way that the cycles
evoke reflection. September brings lust for life, a sense
of loss, missed opportunity and sadness at the end of
Summer. November brings sense of death with ugly,
dead, brown landscape. Winter has cozy lunches of
delcious soup. Spring is always amazing after the long
Winter. Summer is more beautiful than just about
anyplace else I know.... If I were in San Diego I guess
I'd just get up every day to sunny room temperature.
I expect that would get old.
Today it was 90F. By Monday they're predicting a
high in the mid 60s. Over the weekend I've got to figure
out what I did with my long pants. :)
But I do dislike what the salt does to car frames.
I built a small deck recently using deck screws. Pre-drilled the holes
when it was on the edges of the planks, but everything else went in easy
without pre-drilling. Every deck we've built we used screws even the
deck we built around our above ground pool. When we sold the pool, we
sold the deck with it and the boards just had to be unscrewed and carted
| When we sold the pool, we
| sold the deck with it and the boards just had to be unscrewed and carted
That's the one argument I can think of in favor of
screws. Easier to take apart. I can't think of any
other reason. Those holes you didn't pre-drill will
end up with mini-splits and water will pool in the
countersink, rotting the wood further. Flat head
nails will virtually disappear because they're pretty
much on the same plane as the wood.
Not much of a carpenter or woodworker, I see.
If you pre-drill for screws the wood won't split. I don't surface nail
or surface screw my decks. Deck clips work fine with hot galvanized
roofing nails - and you don't see them. On my composite deck I used
the plastic clips with stainless screws. Deck railing assembled with
nails doesn't last very long. Screws hold more in tension than nails.
Actually master of a few. 2 in particular. Auto mechanic and computer
technician. In connection with those 2, add teaching, propane
service, window service, air conditioning,and building maintenance
(plumbing, electrical,) etc
Growing up with a father who was an electrician and building
contractor, as well as growing up working on the farm added a few
Then my hobbies over the years of restoring/hot-rodding cars and
building an airplane - - - - -
About 50 years of work experience.
Class of '64 Engineering school, SNU Korea, mandatory service for
two years in ROKA field artillery unit. Joined U.S. DOD as a military
civilian in radio telecom. with 8th US Army, 304th LL Bn. traveled
overseas, reached GS-13 when I quit. Settled in Canada, joined Honeywell
as field engineer >> Sr. systems specialit when I
retired after 37 years. 5 more years on retainer doing cosulting work.
Basically one career in the same field.
Wife spent little over 30 years as a RN and anesthetist. She started
her own business which is still going on strong. At the peak, had 4
stores, down to one now in our old neighborhood.
I think my wife would be in the running.
She stated out in a grocery store as a night stocker
Unloaded hogs at Rudy's Sausage in Arkansas
Loading dock manager in Tampa
Lab tech at Fox Electronics in Ft Myers
Owned a florist shop (FTD master florist)
Floral manager Publix
Sold Safety supplies (Zee truck)
Sold advertising at the local paper
Sold Health Life and annuities
Retail store asst manager (home goods 2 places)
Sold HVAC systems (Trane top 10 performer 2 years in a row)
Built over 100 houses and brought a community out of the ground
Now site manager at a gated commmunity/country club and looking around
for something else.
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