OT for ahr.
I bought a big chocolate bar recently, store brand, nothing embossed in
the chocolate but a few grid lines, and on the label it says
"Sustainably sourced cocoa".
Are there cocoa mines? Are there cocoa wells? Is cocoa a fossil food?
Do they grow cocoa on islands about to be flooded by a rising ocean?
What other kind of cocoa is there but sustainably sourced?
Please say where you live, or what
area's English you are asking about.
| What other kind of cocoa is there but sustainably sourced?
I imagine it's probably like exotic hardwoods:
"sustainably sourced" rosewood would be farmed
as opposed to stripping all the wild trees until
Having verified that cocoa beans grow on trees, and reading more about
cocoa on wikip,
As if, if they had money they'd care abou tthe ennvironment]
This must be what you and the candy label are referring to. I saw this
in person in 1971 in Central America, when I would see tractor-trailor
flat trucks with humongously thick logs on them as the trees were cut
down for some use or other, and then the land was used for agriculture,
for the almost surely growing population.
Above it sound slike the logging companies fell the trees first, for
their own profit, so why shouldn't the cocoa farmers raise cocoa on the
cleared land. It seems to me the problem is the growth in population.
"If cars can get better mileage, why can't we get better satiety out of
food? Why can't people eat less, not just the fat ones but everyone?
Then we could have more people without needing more farmland."
Please say where you live, or what
area's English you are asking about.
| I saw this
| in person in 1971 in Central America, when I would see tractor-trailor
| flat trucks with humongously thick logs on them as the trees were cut
| down for some use or other, and then the land was used for agriculture,
| for the almost surely growing population.
Exotic hardwoods were cut because there was a big
US market for them. How do we know the land was then
used to support farming for a growing population? You
make it all sound very Mr. Rogers-esque.
| Above it sound slike the logging companies fell the trees first, for
| their own profit, so why shouldn't the cocoa farmers raise cocoa on the
| cleared land. It seems to me the problem is the growth in population.
Trees are cut in Brazil to support cattle grazing, which
helps Burger King save .5 cents per burger. But the rain
forest soil is high in clay and low in nutrients. It's quickly
depleted and abandoned, while the grazers move on to
a new spot. (Not news, either. It's been going on for
decades. Though I saw something recently about efforts
to re-establish rain forest growth.)
The commonality in the two cases is that resources
are being managed recklessly because there's big money
to be made in the short term. Maybe that's a natural
system in its own way: We'd never have the foresight
or the discipline to manage the cocoa crop if we weren't
forced to by the threat of dwindling Hershey bars. The
crisis has to reach American shopping malls before it's
real for us.
So maybe your sustainably sourced cocoa isn't so
silly after all. It may be the ticket to you being able to
buy another chocolate bar 5 years from now. :)
Likewise, there's a farmed hardwood industry now that
didn't exist a few decades ago.
(Though I wouldn't call it a chocolate bar when you
buy Hershey's or a generic, budget brand. The last
time I tried Hershey's chocolate I couldn't discern any
chocolate flavor at all. Being a big fan of chocolate
that's 70+ % cocoa, when I eat mainstream milk
chocolate these days it tastes like a butter and sugar
bar to me. The creaminess is wonderful, but there's
just no chocolate flavor.)
| Maybe you're getting old and your taster is shot...they taste the same as
always to me. Palmer chocolate tastes like wax and lard, on the other hand.
I don't mean that I think Hersheys has downgraded
their chocolate. I just think it never was much good.
Even the mediocre Lindt at least has about 50% cocoa
solids. I don't think Hersheys even lists that on their
labels. Once I got used to dark chocolate from Whole
Foods or Trader Joes, the Hershey's seemed very bland.
(Maybe someone used to Hersheys might think 70%
cocoa solids organic chocolate tastes like bitter baking
I've never heard of Palmers. Maybe that's local?
It's an interesting issue in general. As a baby boomer,
my parents grew up with little processed food. I grew up
at a time when foods were inventions. Marshmallow
fluff, Kool-aid, oreos, fish sticks, lucky charms cereal....
I thought sugary grain flakes were breakfast. For lunch
I thought it was normal to eat tasteless, industrial
white bread slathered with something called Skippys.
Skippys consisted of old peanuts combined with lots
of sugar and hydrogenated vegetable oil. I thought
coffee was a powder, like Kool-aid. I also thought
salad dressing was a powder, to be mixed with tasteless
oil and tasteless vinegar. (We didn't have herbs and
spices. We had garlic salt, onion salt, powdered thyme,
etc.) I thought Coke and Pepsi were normal, delicious
Things got so extreme that we needed the hippie
era and the natural foods fad to reassess and figure
out what food should be. Even that movement was
a bit naive. What's granola, after all, but sugary oat
candy? (And to this day, people who work out in
gyms are eating sugary candybars, with a bit of oat,
and believe them to be nutritious "energy bars".)
Now I eat mainly unprocessed
foods, like my grandparents would have had, except
that it's still hard to get nonindustrial food. I'm sure
my grandparents didn't have trouble finding apples
that didn't taste like cardboard, or oranges with juice.
And the only organic bread I can find is Whole Foods,
which they make in their factory and then heat up in
their stores, pretending to bake it! Post-modern bread. :)
I thought Bud was delicious when I was 20. I thought
Coors was even better. Then at one point I tried homebrew,
prohibition-style. It was made of supermarket malt syrup
with bakers yeast and yarrow stalks. The bottles that
didn't blow up were then drunk. It was delicious! For many
years after that I brewed my own beer, using fresh-frozen
hop flowers, malt syrup made for brewing, and variously
toasted, malted barley grains. Most of America
doesn't even know what real beer tastes like. They drink a
watered-down, slightly sour brew that's made with large
amounts of sugar, to cut the malt taste. Bud uses about
30% rice. Miller doesn't even use real hops. They use a
chemical extract. Real beer would skunk (hop oils going
rancid) in those clear bottles due to light exposure.
I think that trend applies across the spectrum. Food
production became so industrialized that in just 1 or 2
generations we acclimated to eating things that are
barely food at all, then it takes some effort to discover
and acclimate to quality food.
.... Just my opinion. You could be right, after all. Maybe
I'm just getting old and need bitter chocolate to get any
taste at all. :)
a lot of the foil wrapped stuff around the holidays.
when i read a label that has palm kernel or palm
oil or anything other than cocoa butter or chocolate,
it's a sign to get something else.
i used to make a lot of chocolates and usually could
find decent chocolate in bulk at the bakery supply
or cake making places.
in reference to actual sustainability, cocoa is a
good understory plant for a mixed tropical forest.
it's having troubles at the moment due to diseases
and being replaced by other farm crops, but if the
price goes up those trends can be reversed. we'll
see what happens.
| If you make your own brew...have you heard of Gusmer (brewer supplies)?
They have been an ever expanding company in our area.
I haven't heard of them, but I haven't brewed for
a few years, and when I did I had a choice of 2
or 3 local suppliers.
I enjoyed brewing and loved the beer, but the
trouble was that I'd make about 10 six-packs at
a time and liked to keep 2 or 3 varieties ready. Yet
I rarely drink more than one or two beers at a time
myself. So I'd give away a lot of beer.... then I'd
have to brew more.... It just got to seem like too
much trouble. The cooking and bottling each required
an evening of intensive work.
| Would you be interested in my home made Primal Cocoa Ganache
| It is really, really strong and very low carb. Have to
| keep it refrigerated or it melts. Pretty easy to make too.
Sounds interesting. You mean you can share
the recipe? I've been trying to cut down desserts
in order to lose weight, but I love chocolate.
This comes out like fudge? It actually sounds a
lot like my recipe for very easy, very rich chocolate
cream pie: 1/2 pound semi-sweet chocolate melted
into 1 cup light cream. The frosting is made from
one cup heavy cream, optionally with sweetener.
That's it. The filling gets poured into a pie crust
and refrigerated. My version has lots of carbs.
I don't avoid carbs. Though I also don't eat chocolate
cream pie very often. Stevia sounds interesting.
I looked it up.
I have a niece who's on a "ketogenic" diet and
raves about it. I'm guessing that's similar to your
"primal" diet. Personally I'm very skeptical
about the health of such a diet in the long term,
though mu niece needs to lose weight and it's helping
her to do that. It's also helping her to become more
aware of food quality. Maybe I shouldn't say too much,
though. We had a long, heated debate about Paelo
diet here awhile back. :)
I believe a "ketogenic" diet is about low-carbohydrate / high fat and
protein. I followed such a diet (Adkins) for a while and found it to be
effective and pretty easy to maintain, but there are those that say
it's not very healthy.
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