So the owners of Goodman, in the sample, have a greater incidence of problems.
Doesn't matter who installed it, or whatever other factors. The top rated
equipment is just as susceptible to other equipment failures.
Mere samplings of 36,000 people. That's significant.
Don't agree at all.
Longevity wasn't the purpose of the survey. The bottom rated may very well
outlast the top rated. The survey concerned the number of problems each owner
That's your prerogative. As an ex-installer, you probably had a good idea of
what equipment you would install in your own home, and what equipment you
would avoid too.
Don't care. I'm only interested in the ones that *were* reported. Nothing
Not at all. Problems and longevity are two different beasts. I've had more
than my share of problems with my unit, but it's 18 years old and still going
strong. And NONE of them are related to the installation.
Yep, the installer *is* the key to a system that will provide you with years
of comfort and reliability.
You can't argue with FACTS, boy!
Keep making up data? Where?
I made up an example to show you why your little 'survey' was complete crap.
Then you couldn't even read the damn thing correctly! LOL
I'm still waiting for you to answer my questions pertaining to the outcome
of the original CR survey. Why are you scared to answer them? Are you afraid
that your answer will make you look worst than you already do? If that's
Point? How does this pertain to the survey?
How does this validate your survey?
Sorry, I'm not into fucking little boys... I didn't know you was, sorry I
brought up something that's a touchy subject for you.
It's an example, I'm sorry that you can't understand it, boy!
That you read and couldn't understand. Sorry it was so complicated. LOL
Maybe I'll get a little boy to explain it to you... Ooops, that may be a
I didn't say I didn't like it, I said that it's complete BULLSHIT. Do you
I could careless what it says, it's just more BULLSHIT that gets published
in a BULLSHIT magazine.
You must think it's some kind of bible... sorry, but the survey is BULLSHIT.
I would think that if you're into surveys so much that you could at least
read and comprehend a simple example. LOL
Well kjpro, he will never get it, or give up his argument that the
survey predicts equipment brand reliability.
There will always be individuals who believe they know more than the
service techs who work on the majority of those equipment brands, both
in & not listed in that survey.
kjpro, I know that your points & questions are valid because of my
direct experience in the field, he only recognizes a survey that leaves
out all the requisite factors that must be included for even a somewhat
valid survey. Does he have a connection with CR, or is he simply closed
minded, or does he just trust statistics based on inadequate premises
toward predicting equipment brand repair frequency. CR needs to be a
lot more careful when they evaluate equipment based on shallow sample
In the HVAC equipment field, Factors other than the equipment brand are
the major contributors toward higher levels of component failures.
If there are particular component problems, each company addresses &
eliminates those issues ASAP.
(He will NOT accept those realities, additionally, most readers' of CR
probably believe as xmodem believes.)
You can make folks believe almost anything with shallow based
No offense to you xmodem, believe what you want to, & buy on that survey.
I would go for the best payback plus equipment qualities, proper sizing
& especially a quality installation, - which might or might not be a
WISDOM PRINCIPLE DIRECTED EMPOWERMENT COMMUNICATIONS -
THE REAL POLITICAL ISSUES and WISDOM BASED PEOPLE EMPOWERMENT
Some are born to learn and then some are born brain dead like our troll
It's sad when someone wants to have a debate, but later you find they're
incompetent to understand the simple charts which they're debating.
At least their shallow surveys are there for the shallow minded people like
Why else would they purchase a CR magazine? LOL
No need to apologize to xModem, he's to incompetent to understand a simple
What it SHOULD have, though, that I haven't yet seen in this thread,
is an indication of its statistical validity. Differences can occur
randomly, after all, and unless one actually does the statistics,
one can't discount the possibility that irrelevant random variation
accounts for the "differences" supposedly shown by the results. The
methodology used in the survey should also be scrutinized, or there's
a danger of such factors as self-selection biasing the results. For
instance, there's a famous case of a telephone survey that was done
back when not everyone had a telephone -- the results were biased in
favor of views held by wealthy respondents.
Without some assurance that the survey is valid, it's no better than
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form firstname.lastname@example.org.
Here's the text in its entirety, minus the graphics showing the ratings, which
were already posted. Make of it what you may:
Furnace picks and pans
Buying a reliable furnace has largely been a roll of the dice, but help is at
hand. New data from a Consumer Reports survey of more than 36,000 homeowners
show that some brands of gas furnaces, the most common type by far, may be a
better bet than others. Gas furnaces from Goodman, for instance, were among
the more repair-prone of the 12 big brands in our 2004 Annual Questionnaire.
Overall, about one-sixth of all furnaces installed in the past eight years had
needed repair. We found only minor differences between new installations and
replacements. Among our other survey findings:
• Nearly 60 percent of repairs were to furnaces that had failed completely and
stopped producing heat.
• Almost 40 percent of repairs involved homes left unheated for at least 24
• Almost 40 percent of repairs cost $150 or more.
According to our survey data, the vast majority of repairs involved a problem
with the furnace itself, not with its installation. It’s important to choose
not only a good installer but also a reliable brand.
Data are based on 36,181 central furnaces installed between 1997 and 2004;
differences of less than 5 points are not meaningful. Data have been
standardized to account for higher use in colder climates and differences in
age; repairs to thermostats only were not counted as repairs. Note that models
within a brand may vary. Our data cannot always anticipate design or
Again 12 big brands... is Thermopride and the others not major players in
the heating industry?
Then you're using a 2004 survey for rating current brands for 2007?
Do you realize that is 3 years later?
Do you know that manufacture's change their equipment at least once a year?
That in itself makes the survey out to be a JOKE.
BULLSHIT, most equipment failures are because of installation issues.
They should include a disclaimer... something like this.
*** Our survey is based on statistics that are gathered from people that
have very limited knowledge of HVAC systems. This can leave you with results
that may be conflicting to actual data gathered by professionals. You should
always consult a professional for further information pertaining to your
HVAC equipment needs. ***
I told you. I don't give a shit. I'm only interested in those 12.
I already mentioned when it was done.
Don't argue with me, idiot. I didn't write the survey.
We've been over this. If a homeowner can't get his furnace working, it's a
problem. He doesn't need knowledge to know he's freezing.
I'm sure if you contact Consumers Union, and tell them who you are, they'll
issue an abject apology, and print your findings. After all, they've only
been in the business since the 1930's, and don't have much experience.
It is in the installation, but you're so hung up on the survey that you
should want to know about the 'other' brands that could be better?
I see you missed the point... AGAIN.
You talking about the BULLSHIT survey again? The one you think is accurate?
It's funny how you couldn't even understand a simple survey example. LOL
It's three years old you freaking idiot.
You are aware that equipment changes many times in that time frame?
Just more bullshit, no facts to back up your bullshit. Coarse there never is
facts to back bullshit.
You lost, admit it and go on you freaking loser!
Then how is the survey accurate?
If it doesn't look at all the facts, it's a bullshit survey.
Don't you get that yet?
I didn't refuse to answer anything, unlike you who doesn't know how to read
survey's. Then later even forget what you posted about them. LOL
My attention is on how you think a bullshit survey is providing you with
accurate results. LOL
There you go, obsessing about little children again. You should really find
someone to help you with your problem.
And that makes it accurate in what way? LOL
More bullshit by the incompetent Boy.
What's that Boy?
Sorry you don't like facts... just like a little cry baby.
I know HVAC and that allows me to understand why their survey is based on
inaccurate facts. Just like all the rest of the bullshit you've posted.
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