Can't believe this...

[Nate Nagel]

just finished replacing my kitchen sink yesterday... had to make a new drain pipe for it, and also do some minor repair to the countertop (had a hidden chip) anyway I got everything hooked up, turned on the water, and... what a mess! my new faucet was leaking water everywhere. It was a new Moen single handle deal with the spray nozzle, and it appeared to be leaking down the hose to the spray nozzle. This faucet uses an unusual method of connecting the hose to the faucet, instead of the usual threaded connection it pushes into a plastic clip and seals with O-rings. I suspect the plastic clip. Anyway, I'll be returning it and getting another faucet. Do Delta faucets use a more conventional method of connecting the sprayer nozzle hose? I put the old Delta faucet back in and it is working fine, it's just that the girlie wants a new faucet with a sprayer nozzle and this one doesn't have one.

Additionally, there was some serious foul-smelling black muck in the drain pipe when I disconnected the part I was replacing. This is an older house with cast iron drains, and it appeared that this muck was only in the cast iron pipes, not the newer pvc stub out to the fixture. Coincidence? Or should I think about having the pipes snaked out? There was a pretty serious plug right at the 45 degree elbow going out to the sink; probably 3/4 of the pipe was blocked. I knocked most of it out with a screwdriver and the sink appears to be working OK now. (it would occasionally drain slow before.)

nate

[hallerb]

ywhere. =EF=BF=BDIt

urning it and

I have always had good luck with deltas, dont know about current spray hose mounting my delta is about 1 years old.

cast iron pipe is rougher so gunk sticks, if your not having a problem I would forget about it

[hallerb]

dump a couple BIG pans of boiling water down the drain to clean it

[JoeSpareBedroom]

If you like the style of the Moen, wait till Monday and call them. They're very good at helping customers solve problems, if my experience is any indication. I've installed several of their products without any problems at all.

[Nate Nagel]

I don't care much about style, SWMBO picked it out.

We did look particularly at Moen based on the recommendation of the guys at the plumbing supply house. They said that they preferred Moen and Delta with a slight edge to Moen, which is why I was surprised when it was not my work that leaked but the faucet itself. Meanwhile the 20 year old Delta is still working fine but doesn't have the sprayer nozzle which was the whole point of the exercise.

Hallerb said he had a year-old Delta, I'd be curious to know if it had the standard threaded connection between the sprayer hose and faucet. I get the impression that they don't make radical changes to their designs very often.

nate

[dpb]

Nate Nagel wrote: ...

...

I've not installed a recent Moen, but I'd be _very_ surprised if it's a generic design defect. I'd check first of all that the installation was actually correct (maybe if it's somewhat unusual the order of rings, etc., might be wrong?) or there's a piece missing or something similar. If there were a generic problem, you wouldn't be the first. If you can't figure out the problem, take it back to the supply and find out the cause.

--

[Nate Nagel]

Right, and I assembled the faucet to the sink *before* dropping it into the countertop. I won't have that option this time around however :(

nate

[JoeSpareBedroom]

If Moen changed the design, eliminating the traditional threaded fitting, my

*guess* it they did it because the fitting in question can be tricky to reach, and that can result in cross threading. Know what I mean, when you can't get your hand at the correct angle?

I'd prefer to struggle with the right kind of fitting, though. Everyone knows you turn the fitting backward till you hear or feel the first click, and then go forward.

[Malcolm Hoar]

There's nothing fundamentally flawed about the plastic quick-release fittings on the spray line. I have a Grohe faucet that's lasted 10 years (including a deinstall/ reinstall when we replaced the countertop). Never leaked!

I fully expect it to last another 10 years or more.

If your supplier can't help you sort this out, call Moen because they will. Moen faucets *are* good quality and Moen will stand behind them.

[Paul Franklin]

I like Delta. Not sure if you're talking about the type where the end of the spout pulls out for spaying, or the separate sprayer that sits in an extra hole. The Delta's with the pull out sprays have a threaded connection with an o-ring seal to the spout. (At least as of a year or so ago.) I have two and haven't had any trouble with them leaking.

HTH, Paul F

[Pete C.]

If it's a push lock type connection similar to those used commonly in pneumatic systems (millions in factory automation type applications) I'd expect it should be just fine and if it's not working properly it's a defective part and not a defective design.

[Nate Nagel]

Update: was able again to make it home early from work today, took faucet back to supply place, neither I nor counter guy could see anything wrong with it. I asked for a pair of o-rings for the sprayer nozzle connection and tried it again. On a whim, I lubed the O-rings with silicone grease prior to installation thinking that that is what I would do if I were installing them on a car, so why not here? Also I think the ones I got as replacements are ever so slightly larger in cross-section than the original ones. et voila, works perfectly. I guess either one of the o-rings had a minor flaw that I couldn't see or I nicked/twisted it on installation in a way that I couldn't see. Anyway, it's in there now and now I can consider the kitchen sink project almost complete.

on to the next issue...

nate

[Oren]

The bride happy? You will enjoy the Moen for years!

The o-rings for my pool filter and strainer basket are pre-lubricated (embedded). I still use a little spray lube and have good results.

The o-rings can be tricky.

[Steve]

Nate Nagel wrote on 17 Dec 2007 in group alt.home.repair:

I moved into a newly constructed house 18 months ago. The bathtub faucet dripped VERY slowly, about a quart a day -- just enough that SWMBO didn't like it. The second plumber the builder sent out found the problem. The factory O-ring was flawed, with a little flat place in one spot. Replacement solved the problem.

Yeah, I could have done it myself, but that's what a warranty is for. Besides, I got to talke to the second guy, and I now we refer work to each other.

[Nate Nagel]

Well, I spoke too soon. Apparently it is *not* fixed but now leaking out of the spray nozzle end. haven't had a chance to investigate yet.

Am seriously regretting going with Moen. I know they have a good rep but the whole faucet when installed seems cheap and flimsy, although there was really no way to tell looking at it in the box. When I turn the water on I can see the arm moving relative to the base, and everything just feels light duty. I like the old Delta much better, except for the obvious lack of sprayer nozzle.

nate

[JoeSpareBedroom]

What's the sink made out of and how much did it cost?

As far as the problems with the Moen, what did they say when you called them with your telephone today?

[Oren]

Now, I'm thinking install vs faucet fault!

[Nate Nagel]

it's a Kohler 19ga. SS sink, cost about $250 not sure why that's relevant. I think I see where you're going with this question and that's another minor disappointment, the sink is not as rigid as I'd hoped in the area of the faucet but it was the heaviest gauge one in the catalog at the plumbing store for less than $500. But anyway the arm of the faucet moving when the water is on is not flexing of the sink, it's definite movement of the arm portion of the faucet relative to the base. it ain't much, but it's visible and the old Delta faucet doesn't do it.

Didn't have a chance to call as I was on the road most of the day and therefore try to limit my phone usage (although some days that's not practical...) actually upon further investigation it appears that the issue was something loose in the sprayer nozzle... I disassembled it, reassembled it, and now I don't see the issue. Apparently the valve in the sprayer nozzle was not closing all the way causing a dribble of water out the nozzle when using the faucet. It's not doing that anymore... not sure what I "fixed" - I am guessing that maybe there was some debris in there that is now gone.

as of this exact moment (knock on wood) there's no functional issues with the faucet but I'm overall just not 100% nuts about it. I personally would be happier putting the old one back in but I don't know how I could get my money back for the new one now that it's been installed twice and admittedly there aren't any current functional issues with it. Also SWMBO did really want that damn sprayer nozzle... :(

nate

[Oren]

Correct on both issues - debris and SWMBO. Take a nap:_))

Stay with the Moen, imo.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

The sprayer nozzle is a brilliant tool, although some primitive people don't realize it. At this point in the conversation, I am 100% sure that any malfunctions are the fault of the installer. Get with the program.