Break-even point for home electric generator powered by natural gas? What about NG-powered AC compressor?

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7 kw and larger). The price for a 7 kw system is $3000 (I think it's a turn-key system). This works out to a constant 120v/50 amp (240 v, 25 amp) supply.

If I'm comparing the cost of electricity (in cents per kwh) vs the cost of natural gas (in terms of cents per cubic meter or cubic foot) does anyone know the break-even ratio that would make it economical to generate most (or all) the electricity for your house from your natural gas supply using one of these units?

What about natural-gas-driven AC compressors? Wouldn't that be a smart choice to run your AC compressor on natural gas in the summer (when NG demand is low) ?

Reply to
Some Guy
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Ask Home Depot how many hours is the generator expected to last. I am not sure if you would get a meaningful answer. Usually, it would not be an impressively high number of hours. Let's say that it is made like a very good automotive engine and could last 5,000 hours. (equivalent of 250,000 miles at 50 mph).

5,000 hours is 208 days. That's how long it would last if it was run 24/7. You may be able to get away with running it less if you had a battery/inverter system, but that is also big bucks, with batteries needing replacement etc.

That means that cost of the generator, amortised over its useful life, is going to be substantial.

I doubt that you would be able to get any better than 2-3 times the cost of utility supplied electricity.

i
Reply to
Ignoramus8020

Maybe 2.00$ a kilowatt as an example only, but possibly true for some . The Generac air cooled HD is not designed for prime continous power, Any 3600rpm units life is 3000-5000 hrs or 4 months or so, how it is loaded is important. Im sure Generac has other prime power units, but the cost. Figure only 1/3rd of the ng burned is converted to electricity, heat and friction make up th other 2/3 . An 1800 rpm unit lasts 4 times as long 10-20000 hrs. A 900 rpm Lister over 100000 hrs, that is prime power. A cheap Honda or Yamaha inverter type with load dependant rpm could theoreticly last 100,000 hrs. if you kept rpm under

900. The 3000w unit can do that developing only 1-200 watts. For longest life get a Yamaha or Honda inverter converted to Ng and keep rpms low. 10,000-12,000 hrs off them is common at medium 50% load , but at 900 rpm 100000 is possible. Yamaha is heard to have superior electronics, but I wonder if it isnt really that most people buy the 1600-2000 watts units and just overload them and never consider surge load, effectively people just abuse them.
Reply to
m Ransley

Maybe 2.00$ a kilowatt as an example only, but possibly true for some . The Generac air cooled HD is not designed for prime continous power, Any 3600rpm units life is 3000-5000 hrs or 4 months or so, how it is loaded is important. Im sure Generac has other prime power units, but the cost. Figure only 1/3rd of the ng burned is converted to electricity, heat and friction make up th other 2/3 . An 1800 rpm unit lasts 4 times as long 10-20000 hrs. A 900 rpm Lister over 100000 hrs, that is prime power. A cheap Honda or Yamaha inverter type with load dependant rpm could theoreticly last 100,000 hrs. if you kept rpm under

900. The 3000w unit can do that developing only 1-200 watts. For longest life get a Yamaha or Honda inverter converted to Ng and keep rpms low. 10,000-12,000 hrs off them is common at medium 50% load , but at 900 rpm 100000 is possible. Yamaha is heard to have superior electronics, but I wonder if it isnt really that most people buy the 1600-2000 watts units and just overload them and never consider surge load, effectively people just abuse them.
Reply to
m Ransley

Did the math on this a while back when these things just came to market...

I found that i'd need to sell the power back to the utility and run the generator all the time to break even. Then what I'd get is free heat from the generator exhaust.

Some electric utilities (because of regulations) do have to buy back power--your meter just runs backwards and you get a check.

You also need a source of cheap fuel! (Good luck with that, now...)

Check out microturbines; I believe a company called "capstone turbine" makes them.

A fun project might be to build > Maybe 2.00$ a kilowatt as an example only, but possibly true for some .

Reply to
thrugoodmarshall

You can`t break , the utility here buys back at 1/10 of what they charge, then with initial cost, maintenance,operating cost and depreciation you can never win. Unless you can dam a river.

Reply to
m Ransley

I usually don't answer posts with more than one x-post. but...

Simply look up how much NG that generator takes at 50% load. Multiply times

720 to get your monthly gas usage, figure out how much that will cost, and compare to your present power bill. I guarantee you, you will have no further questions. Believe it or not, it would cost me the best part of $1000/month to run my little 4KW generator 24/30.

Please can the excessive crossposting.

Vaughn

Reply to
Vaughn

You could just leave it at:

and

There's nobody at the box stores that even comes close to having a clue anymore.

Reply to
wkearney99

Please tell me which ->one

Reply to
Some Guy

Try alt.energy .homepower So what is you rate at 50x normal prices in summer peak. Probably less than what we south of you consider cheap.

Reply to
m Ransley

Canada is the 51st state they just dont know it

Reply to
m Ransley

Oil change every 6000 miles? Twice a week?

Reply to
Pat

If they were knowledgeable about it they wouldn't be working there earning $7.50/hr.

Reply to
PanHandler

?

Not sure if I understand what you're saying.

What I'm saying is that for probably a couple dozen days this past summer, Ontario Hydro has had to import electricity from the US side of the grid because Ontario_demand exceeded Ontario_supply. The handfull of mega-watts that need to be imported for a few hours each time come at a high price - they come at the market-price and it's the same price that your local utility would pay if it had to buy that same electricity at the same time of day on the spot-market.

Here's a link to the current electricity demand and price situation in Ontario:

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Today we went from a low of just under 17,000 MW (3 am) to a high of

22,000 MW around 6pm. It looks like anything over 20,000 mw came from outside Ontario (hence the huge price increase just after 4 pm).
Reply to
Some Guy

"Please tell me which ->one

Reply to
Too_Many_Tools

After checking out the consumption of my Hatz 4 cylinder Diesel generator a couple of weeks ago, it would cost me in fuel alone around $AUS 800.00 per

31 day month (about $US 625.00 per month) the current power bill here for 3 months is 600-700 Australian $$ It will be higher this quarter as it has been hot and the air conditioning units have been on more I will expect it will be up around $AUS 800.00 for the quarter.

Oil changes, repairs, depreciation and basic cost of the diesel generator are NOT included in this cost or running the generator, only fuel.

Reply to
<RamRod Sword of Baal>

Generac Ng or propane generators are set up to self cycle every week , schedule can be changed though. Talk to an owner of one to see what he pays in summer to maintain the gen for gas on self cycle . Ive been told it adds apx4- 6$ a month for it to self test itself.

Reply to
m Ransley

Usenet recommends crossposting, where applicable, to save memory storage space.

alt.hvac, but even those

energy-consuming

allowing anyone to

the post, and not

distribution of the

posting or your

all come to Usenet

answer in time.

the North.

Reply to
John P.. Bengi

That's nice.

APPROPRIATE groups, not just ANY FUCKING GROUPS YOU FEEL LKE HITTING.

No - because it is not a forum for home-owner / DIY questions,, and most ESPECIALLY not for HO's / DIY's who are posting because they're JUST TOO FUCKING LAZY to do their own homeowrk.

Gag - Canada is FUCKING LUCKY we let it exist, and we PROTECT it and NO ONE DARE TOUCH IT BECAUSE IT WOULD PISS US OFF.

The only reason we even let it exist is becuase we don't want a bunch of wannabe-French fags moving in.

Reply to
.p.jm

According to :

Ah yes, another member of the Anne Coulter school of the historically ignorant.

Too late, they already did. Or have you not heard of Louisiana?

Reply to
Chris Lewis

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