Break-even point for home electric generator powered by natural gas? What about NG-powered AC compressor?

[Chris Lewis]

According to :

Never heard of the war of 1812, have you?

Or the Fenian raids?

Ann Coulter would be soooo proud of you.

[Steve Scott]

Hmm, Canada wasn't even a country then. It was a British colony.

The Fenian raids? Irish trying to get the Brits out of Ireland. Hardly the USA. And they started while Canada was still a colony of Britain.

Your history teacher must be proud of you.

[Chris Lewis]

According to Steve Scott :

Picky picky ;-) Still the same place, and the same peoples.

Indeed, if you hadn't deployed WMDs (torching towns in Niagara) we probably would be US states by now. [Up until then it was primarily British regulars and their Indian allies you were fighting. After that, the Canadians got pissed off too.]

[By attacking Canada from the US. Makes sense somehow I guess.]

Started. Continued until afterwards, with the US government continuing to turn a blind eye to it.

I think they were.

We're still waiting for the repayment over the property you stole from our ancestors in the late 1700s .

[Steve Scott]

So we kicked the Brits, Indians AND Canadians. :) And probably had one tied behind our backs to make it fair.

There's no accounting for the reasoning of the Irish.

True, but still just a few Irish, not the USA.

Take an IOU? :)

[Chris Lewis]

According to Steve Scott :

If you had kicked the Brits, Indians, and Canadians, we would be a state.

You lost that war, remember? Oh, I forgot, the Americans claim that they won that one.

Militarily, we had the edge at the end (we held parts of the US). Politically, it was a draw (the Brits gave those parts back [+]).

But, from the perspective of what the intent of the American invaders _was_ (take over Canada to "free" us from the British oppression, which we happened to _like_ ;-), you blew it big time.

We'll have to take the advice of the US mint: In God We Trust, all others pay cash. ;-)

[+] Well, from another perspective, we won that part too - we made you take Detroit back ;-)

[Tony Wesley]

Let's see, we got England to stop boarding ships and impressing the crew into their navy, plus England finally recognized the USA. Plus, England gave up some land that had formerly been considered part of Canada. It wasn't Drummond's Island anymore.

If you read the treaties that ended the two wars with England, you'll know that 1812 wasn't a draw.

American invaders? The "invasion" was the other way, the Brits taking Mackinac Island first.

[John P.. Bengi]

The Americans tried to take back Mackinac three times unsuccessfully. In the end we gave it to them for political gain.

Canadians, we would be a state.

Americans claim that they

impressing the

the USA. Plus,

considered part of

parts of the US).

parts back [+]).

England, you'll

American invaders _was_

oppression, which we happened

the Brits taking

[John P.. Bengi]

That is why the US is pulling all the minerals, gas and oil from underneath Louisianna and making it sink into the ocean. 35 miles of land have disappeared and only about 30 left to go to Mardi Gras Grove. I wonder why they wouldn't just move all those people to higher ground? Maybe colour? (spelled "n***er" for the USanians)...LOL

neighbor to

we PROTECT

US OFF.

the historically

don't want

Louisiana?

class named after them.

[Chris Lewis]

According to Tony Wesley :

That happened two days _before_ the Americans declared war.

Read the history:

Back to

- U.S. forces were not ready for war, and American hopes of conquering Canada collapsed in the campaigns of 1812 and 1813.

H'm. "Hopes to conquer Canada collapsed". So, what you started the war over was obsolete by the time war was declared, you didn't conquer Canada, and the land possession hardly changed if at all.

A draw.

We were supposed to sit around twiddling our thumbs after you declared war on us?

Back to that same link again:

- They argued that American honor could be saved and British policies changed by an invasion of Canada.

[Remembering of course that British policies had already been changed.]

[mike wilcox]

The Americans were still trying to take over Canada as late as 1866.

[Oscar_Lives]

Canada didn't want it. It was too fricken cold there.

[Tony Wesley]

Not a word in there about England recognizing the USA. England did not treat US as a sovereign nation until after the War of 1812. It recognized the individual states as sovereign *states*.

The page you reference does not say England stopped boarding ships, nor did it issue orders to stop doing so, it says they (Britain) had announced that it *would* revoke its orders. No telling when they'd get around to doing that. Probably sometime after they would get around abiding by the terms of the Treaty of Paris and withdraw their troops from the agreed upon land.

So you agree the US didn't lose it.

Apply the same standards the other way. By this point, the English Navy has been commiting acts of war for years. Was the United States supposed to "sit around twiddling our thumbs"?

[Chris Lewis]

But so did those states! Texas still does! ;-)

[That's not as sarcastic as it sounds. The US states considered themselves far more autonomous then than they do now. The US couldn't raise an army - legally they could, but, in reality, it was by the states.]

Well, it was only 2 days - that was hardly enough time for anyone to do anything about it. Nobody on this side of the pond knew anything about that for a few weeks.

Canada collapsed

They didn't lose any territory out of it - a draw on that basis.

But, let's step back and look at it strictly and simply from the perspective of goals:

- The US started the war to redress certain wrongs, and invade/conquer Canada.

- Canada "reacted" to that threat, with the goal being to repell the invasion.

Then achievements:

- The "wrongs" were mostly moot, and the invasion failed.

- Canada repelled the invasion.

Depending on how you define things, that's either a win for us (we achieved our goals), or a draw (we didn't make you lose territory).

In reality, it was a remarkably dumb war. If the timing had been better, there'd have been no war. The war was a remarkable series of blunders, sheer luck (freakish occurances during the naval battles), and several strokes of absolute brilliance - ie: the taking of Detroit[*], the defence of Niagara, and the most important one of all: the US capturing a draw at the treaty of Ghent[+]. Without that, you'd have been screwed.

So you invade _us_. Makes sense, maybe.

[+]Ghent happened simply because Britain had just finished the war with France, and were faced with the unpopularity of more years of heavy taxation sending large numbers of just-released battle hardened troops to North America.

Throughout the war, there were at most 3,000 British regulars in Canada[=]. If Ghent hadn't happened, there would have been 30,000 more on the way within months. But Britain was only interested in finishing it - and didn't even know that we were winning ground (again, that dang trans-atlantic communications lag). Heck, nobody knew til weeks later that the war was over - the Battle of New Orleans took place 2 weeks after the war was over. [Which is just as well, because we screwed the pooch on that one.]

[*] An early implementation of psychological warfare. Ridiculously small force gets their even smaller number of indians irregulars to march back and forth making lots of noise just out of sight. The American commander, remembering full well how pissed off the Indians were about getting massacred during the American push west, figured their only salvation was to surrender to the Brits and plead that they be protected from the Indians. So he surrendered. Boy was he embarrassed to find out that he had been surrendered to a mere handful of troops/irregulars who were laughing themselves silly. [=] During the first two years, the fighting on our side was carried out almost exclusively by the British regulars and the Indians they had helping them. It wasn't until the burning of towns in Niagara that fighting the war became popular, and the British, French, and UEL colonists pitched in too.

[Tony Wesley]

[snippage, to try to reduce the size of the post. My last post on this very off-topic subject]

I agree with you. The War of 1812 changed that.

I disagree that the wrongs were moot. The USA took on a superpower that still had thoughts of re-capturing it and backed it down. Sure, Britian could have spent more money and sent more troops. They could have done that back in 1783, too.

Well, who is "us"? At that point.. now, I've been saying England because Mother England ruled everything, but it would be proper to say Great Britain and that includes her colonies. It would have difficult for the US troops to invade the English homeland. (Although I believe American pirate ships did raid the British Isles and one was captured in Wales)

So, Canada was the convenient place to strike at Britain.

So, if you include yourself as part of Britain, sure, it does make sense. And British troops from Canada did invade the USA.

But anyway, the first aggression was Britain attacking on US soil.

And the USA could have continued the war in Vietnam but we were faced with the unpopularity...

Or one of those remarkable blunders.

The atrocities at the River Raisin started motivating the US side as well.

[Steve Scott]

[clifto]

Hell, in 1995 Michael Moore invaded Canada.

[Don Ocean]

You could have gotten renvenge on us by letting us have Quebec! ;-p

[Bob]

Actually, it's been an interesting discussion, with an exception of a few AH's. The usual alt.hvac suspects?

Bob

[George]

Ever hear of "you get what you pay for"? People are attracted to big box stores becuase of cheap prices (which almost always means the level of service has to be downgraded) and seem to be surprised when the service they get doesn't match the marketing hype that all of the "associates" are experts.

[Bob]

Some utilities have to pay MORE than they charge you, at least for solar generated power. Would they also have to for something like this?

Bob