How to compare electric vs natural gas heating costs

Recently bought a house in the Seattle area, built about 1980. At the time the house was built, there was no gas in the area. The house has a heat pump, which is nearing the end of its life. Natural gas is now available in the area. I'm wondering if I should go with another heat pump, or natural gas. Since about 80% of the electricity here is hydro, it's relatively cheap, about $.08/KWH. I don't know what the price of the gas is per cu', but I could find out. Is there a way I could get a rough estimate of how much natural gas I would consume to heat the house, based on the electricity used for this purpose? There are a lot of confounding factors, the relative efficiency of the 2 units (old heat pump vs new nat'l gas furnace), the fact that I also use electric to heat water, etc. (can probably find some rough figure for factoring this out) the relative costs of each type of replacement (I would add AC to the gas furnace, so I'm guessing the gas/AC unit would cost more to buy initially than the heat pump, especially if I have to shell out for the gas line to be run). Coming from the midwest, electric heat was always seen as significatly more costly than natural gas, but I don't know if this is still the case just in general, and particularly if it would be true given this region's relatively low electric rates. Any helpful comments appreciated.

TIA,

Dan

Reply to
Dan
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Here. Lets confuse you just a bit more. Whats wrong with a 95% gas furnace with a heat pump instead of the usual straight cooling only? Ive got it and love it. Gives you a bit more ability to play with the fuel prices. Takes only a Honeywell Vision Pro stat (and outddor temp sensor) to control it all. Bubba

Reply to
Bubba

Sounds interesting, I'll check it out.

Thanks

Dan

Reply to
Dan

Your electric is about half what I pay. You can plug in numbers here to get a pretty good comparison based on using the same Btu for your house. You need to know the cost of gas, of course.

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Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Thanks Ed, that looks ideal!

Dan

Reply to
Dan

Dan, I live in "The Energy City" where they have cheap hydro-power and a nearby nuclear power plant. We can generate more electricity to supply all of New York City in one of out buildings, yet heating the house with natural gas is less expensive than electrically heated. I have all gas appliances, except for A/C. You might get a better clue by talking with your neighbors.

Reply to
Phisherman

Are you comparing electric-resistive heating, or the current generation of electric powered ground source (geothermal) heat pumps? There is a very large efficiency difference between them.

Reply to
Pete C.

I would suggest checking with a well recommended HVAC contractor in your area. I say this because your area is different than most of the US and Canada. The choice of equipment should be one made with a good professional knowledgeable of local conditions, construction and cost.

While where I am I would certainly chose gas and a separate A/C I don't know if that would be my choice where you are. Consider the cost difference of for each system (installed cost and maintenance cost.)

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

Agree. There is confusion of terms from the beginning of this thread. The term "electric heat" is usually used to refer to systems using resistance heating elements. Heat pump is a system that uses a compressor powered by electricity. And another factor is heat pumps can then use either air or geothermal to exchange the heat. Heat pumps systems usually have a backup heat source, usually electric to be used at lower temps. There is a world of difference in terms of operating costs between resistance heat and a heat pump. Just about everywhere, nat gas is going to be cheaper than electric resistance heating to operate. But a heat pump system could be a good alternative, depending on the climate and fuel costs.

Reply to
trader4

I don't know what confusion you're referring to, when I started this thread I clearly stated I now have & am considering a heat pump for replacement. Like most heat pumps, my current system has resistive backup heat for when it's really cold, but such low temps are pretty rare around here. I'm aware of geothermal heat pumps, though I have not researched them in depth. Our lot is a little over 1 acre, but about 80% of that is heavily forested and on fairly rough terrain. Obviously, the installation costs of such a system, whether the horizontal or vertical variety, would be significantly higher than simply plopping another box on the ground. Either way, I may not be living here more than about 5 years, so recouping higher installation costs over time, even for just a top of the line "high efficiency" gas or air-source heat pump, let alone a geo, is probably not going to happen.

Another factor is the potential price stability of the 2 energy sources. No one has a crystal ball, but it seems logical to expect the price of hydro-sourced electricity to be more stable over time than natural gas.

Thanks all for the replies.

Dan

Reply to
Dan

Thanks Joe, I agree a "good knowledgeable professional" is key. Unfortunately, finding one, even with recommendations (I have a couple though I haven't contacted anyone yet), can be a very dicey proposition.

Dan

Reply to
Dan

The title of you post was "How to compare electric heat vs natural gas heat". That's confusing, because what you're talking about is a heat pump, not resistance electric heat. Phisherman responded with a post saying where he lives, even with low electricity costs, electric heat is more expensive. I think what he means is electric resistance heat, not an electrically drive heap pump, is more expensive. But there is no way of knowing when you misuse the commonly acceptedus terms.

Reply to
trader4

You've got to be kidding me...

Reply to
Dan

I can agree with that.

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

Dan, Nope! He aint kiddin. Trader4 is an EE. That classifies him as a grade A #1 pencil pushing geek pain in the ass. Self proclaimed know-it-all on everything. In reality, he's pretty clueless about most everything. Just let him live in his "own little world", ignore him and everything will be all right. :-) Bubba

Reply to
Bubba

Thanks Bubba, I'll keep that in mind ;-) Dan

Reply to
Dan

No, I'm not kidding you, only trying to point out that the answers you're getting may in some cases be wrong because people may have been mislead by the title of your post. If you want to get responses that are answering a question that was different than what you intended, that's up to you. For example, are you sure Phisherman understood you meant a heat pump when you titled your post "How to compare electric heat vs nautral gas heat?" I'd put odds on that he was thinking electric resistance heating because that's what the term "electric heat" usually means and I think that's what his answer was based on. Pete C picked up on that too, when he questioned whether Phisherman really meant electric resistance heat or a heat pump system. I was only trying to point out that the thread may have gone a bit astray because of confusion and that maybe his response was not what he really meant.

Here for reference is the definition of an electric heater:

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An electric heater is an electrical appliance that converts electrical energy into heat. The heating element inside every electric heater is simply an electrical resistor, and works on the principle of Joule heating: an electric current flowing through a resistor converts electrical energy into heat energy.

Sorry that my attempt to straighten out some possible confusion, which is pretty much what Pete C did too, got you so bothered that you've followed Bubba, the village idiot, and turned it into a personal attack.

Reply to
trader4

That I was referring to an existing and possible replacement HEAT PUMP was made abundantly clear in the beginning of the post. I'm afraid your exacting editorial standards exceed the rigors of the medium. It's a newsgroup, not a journal article.

Lighten up, you'll live longer.

In any case, I'm not going to go back and forth about this all weekend, so go ahead and have the last word.

Dan

Reply to
Dan

For a geothermal heat pump, trenched vertical coil installation is the easiest and cheapest and is as efficient as other installation types in most situations. Basically you cut a trench with a big ditch witch and then stretch a coil of tubing like a flattened slinky, put it in the trench and back fill with some suitable material. Fast and easy and minimal impact to the area.

Reply to
Pete C.

It's not a case of exacting editorial standards. You apparently think everyone replying to some part of this thread, must have entered the thread at the very beginning and read your entire post. It's very possible they saw the title "How to compare electric vs natural gas heating costs and only read some of the later posts from people trying to reply with advice, where I think it became unclear if the discussion was now about heat pumps, as you intended, or if some replies were about electric resistance heating. Again, I refer you back to the point where there was a response that looked like they may have been talking about resistance heating, not heat pumps. Pete C pointed this response out too. All I did is point out how people might have gone astray because of the wording of the title. But apparently you're so sensitive you'd rather have incorrect answers from a thread going astray rather than have someone point out the possible reason for the confusion and get the thread back on track so you can get valid answers.

If you want more answers regarding heat pumps vs natural gas, try googling for it in this newsgroup. There have been many discussion threads which you will find.

.

Reply to
trader4

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