Thats wierd the link I provided is boschs direct website.
I have a bosch disahwasher it works great, is QUIET, but its complex, no local service other than Sears who costs a fortune:(
Its been a mixed bag, no local parts is a big hassle, sears mailorder the only available here with costly parts in modules and no friendlky appliance parts guy at the counter for advice.
wonder if consumer reports has evaluated them?
I have to jump in here. The Bosch doesn't need electric to run it has its own piezo ligher that ignites when water passes over a wheel. It has no cords and is only dependant on water flow. I can't believe people are basing there buying decisions on power outages! Get a generator if being without power is going to kill you for a couple of days. I remember when a tornado came through my area and 29 people died, shower wasn't the first thing on my list, keeping my family alive was.
Rich
Well he REQUIRES a POWER VENT, when your tankless and have no power you have ABSOLUTELY no hot water at all:(
Power vent requires working power line.....
After the first day of a disaster getting some things back to normal really help, no shower after working hard all day cleaning up yours and neighbors mess, shower helps...
Some years ago we were powerless for over 3 days, big mess. worked cleaning up downed trees for myself and my neighbors one of which is in her 80s and blind. her phone line was down and broke I managed to splice it so she had phone, her lifeline as she said
I bought a generator and inverter for next disaster.
The basic 125HX, the model Ilooked at, requires no electricity. It willoperate in a power failure. However for my home, I have horizontal venting, so I require a fan, and have lived without power for a while. No big deal, I had not required to take a shower at the moments of power gone.
Personally with it outside being 18 degrees, I would more worry about my heat. ;)
tom
P.S. Has global warming gone due to Democrats legislating it's elmination, or is weather weather , outside of our control? ;)
my point is that with no power for the fan the heater wouldnt operate either.......
hope you never have a multi day power failure.
the power companies have cut back the number of line crews trucks and everything around here, depending on mutual aid from other areas when disaster strikes, but even with aid it adds days to response time since the crews have to come with their trucks and equiptement.
with heaver weather global warming appearing worse things may get terrible.
NASA scientists decided global warming was going on yers ago, the bush admnstration silenced them and re wrote their reports to minimize the hazards.
imho,
I heard the northern hemisphere is warming up, because of the more land mass, but the southern hemisphere is cooling down. Evident of Antiartica overall growing ice sheet. Rumors has it, that tall buildings and wind mills have prevented the natural convection that evened out temperatures. Should we ban both?
:p
This has been the case for over a decade. When I worked for ....., not naming them, they had already cut crews from 3 per truck to 2, and were then cutting the number of trucks. All part of the down sizing of the mid 90's.
I guess I should get a generator.
tom
A good article, this pretty much confirms my opinion of these as well.
From a different perspective, I have used this sort of system extensively in Germany. They do require some adjustments to get used to. For example:
Forget using a slow trickle of hot or even lukewarm water - it just isn't possible. These have a modulating burner, but it can only be throttled down so far. They require a minimum flow through the unit before it will kick on. So if, like me, you use a trickle of lukewarm water while peeling potatoes you either have to use cold water and numb your hands, or select a much faster flow rate and waste both water and energy. :-(
In the shower, the technique is to turn the hot water on full (typically flow limited) and do your temperature adjustment with the cold water. Attempting to adjust the hot water is often counterproductive - reduce the hot water a smidge, and it may just get hotter! Yes they are modulating burners, but not perfectly so. :-(
Something I've yet to see here in the US, but common in Germany, is for the same unit to also provide the hot water to the wall radiators for heating. They kick out some impressive heat and quickly warmup a room - faster than my baseboard system!
While I don't consider the cost of the tankless heater to be worthwhile as simply a replacement for the common water heater, I would consider it an economical replacement for my boiler. Their BTU input rate is plenty sufficient, the temperature rise required is low, however it would need to do 180F output. What am I missing? Why do I not see them being used in this manner in the US?
Gary
I¹m considering such a unit. I¹m a single guy and not home all that much, thus there are long periods when I don¹t use any hot water. Or any water for that matter. I realize the tank I currently have might not kick on, but that pilot light is still burning away all the time. .
I¹m using propane which is more expensive than nat¹l gas, so I would think the payback would be sooner.
Since I¹m on a well with an electric pump, the fact that a tankless heater won¹t work when the power goes out is not much of a concern, since I won¹t have any water in that case.
So, what do you guys think about it with my circumstances?
I have a Ng Bosck 125 , a tankless is most definatly the way to go. I will get a 4 -5 yr payback. In summer with gas cooking and dryer my Ng bill is 4-7$. Tanks are less efficient than you think. Look at the Energy Factor, Tanks are around 50-60, the Bosch is 80, tanks looke heat up their chimney and loose efficiency every year from scale. If you have the money and its a larger residence get a Takagi or Rinnai with remote thermostat, if not the small Bosch works, I have the unit with 2 D cells for ignition, mine are 4 years old and still fire it, go for it, I save
15-20 a month over a tank.
I think a tankless sounds good for You.. I left the tanked propane wh in place(disconnected and shut down) until the tankless proves its'self this winter,,so far it handles the colder incoming water just fine..If You're using a propane whole house unit I would think it will handle even more..I just mounted it close to the tanked and added a bit of copper to each line,ran the 6wire and let the Electrician hook it up..Piece of cake and only cost , $250-wh , about $75-wire , 2 npt connectors ,1/2 hour electricians' time and a bit of My time..When I remove the old tanked My time will be more of course.. Dean
$90 a year, or about 25 c a day seems like no savings compared to the disadvantages described in this thread and in the cited article, such as lukewarm showers and not being able to use multiple appliances or showers at the same time. Wouldn't two people going to work in the morning want to shower at the same time if two bathrooms are available?
Given that the combustion efficiencies are the same for tank and tankless heaters, the difference in efficiency measured by the energy factor is because of heat loss from the stored hot water. In the colder climates, this is no loss, since it will heat the home and could keep the water in the pipes from freezing. For the summer, there are heater blankets, and since the inlet water is warmer then, the heater temperature can be turned down, decreasing the heat loss.
I wonder though if there are tank heaters with a "booster" burner for high demand periods.
Mind if I ask, what area of the country are you in?
tom
You already said you were using propane, Larry. Correct me if I'm wrong. Tankless models are available in propane both with standing pilot and electronic.
AFAIK, all tankless models are electronic ignition, and all tank models have pilots. It would seem that a good compromise would be a tank with electronic ignition, but as best I can tell such a unit does not exist. If anyone knows different please post a polite correction.
I had a power vent water heater and it didn't have a standing pilot. It lit when heat was called for and a cycle like a furnace started. Vent would start then pilot would light then the burner would fire until heat was satisfied then the burner would go out then a few seconds later the vent would power down.
Rich
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