BEWARE ZILLER ELECTRIC!!

[Nate]

I recently purchased a 16KW aluminum generator from Ziller Electric. I came home from work to meet the shipper and inspected the package... cardboard, pallet, etc all looked fine. We carefully placed the pallet in my garage and I returned to work. About a week later I decided to do an inventory in order to make plans for installation. After lifting the cardboard cover and inspecting the internals, I walk to the rear and find that the rear panel is pushed in exactly where the flex conduit is stored during shipment. Something obviously pushed on the rear of the unit and dented the panel and two of the air louvers.

I called Ziller twice and left voicemail both times. After not receiving a return call, I called a third time and, upon speaking with their manager, was immediately told that "I had signed for it". I asked for a replacement or someone to come replace the panel and was basically told to take it up with the shipper. I started to get upset at this point and the manager actually started laughing at me on the phone. Nice customer service.

I honestly wouldn't expect anyone to completely unpack a 500 lb generator while the shipper is sitting in the driveway but that's Ziller's stance. I'm in the process of taking this up with both my credit card company and Generac so we'll see what happens.

[RicodJour]

You do realize that Usenet complaints such as yours often come across as whining, don't you? You didn't mention whether the damage was functional (didn't sound like it) or purely cosmetic. If it's purely cosmetic, and it's the rear panel, are you actually financially injured or are you upset that someone laughed at you?

As far as the shipping, if you sign for something you are essentially saying that you've accepted it. It is not your responsibility to worry about the shipper's time schedule. Here's how it works: delivery, inspect package, open package, inspect contents, sign delivery receipt. If you feel that you unjustly delayed the driver, then throw the driver some beer money.

If there is a delivery and I can't fully inspect it before signing, I write "Uninspected package, conditionally accepted, all rights reserved", and I don't sign on the line where they want you to sign as there's usually boilerplate acceptance terms there. I'll cross them out and hand the receipt back to the driver. Once you've crossed the thing out and signed it, it's not really his problem any more - it's the company's problem. he can't write up a anew receipt, so what's he going to do. Be polite at all times, it's unlikely that it's the driver's fault unless you saw them drop the package at your place. If he starts raising a bit of a ruckus about the non standard signature, throw him some beer money.

And stop whining on Usenet. It's unseemly.

R

[Nate]

Perhaps you should consider not being an arrogant ass on Usenet when someone is trying to prevent an unfortunate incident from happening to someone else. FYI, I've never seen a freight company hang around while an entire shipment is unpacked, uncrated, and inspected.

[Don]

must have been damaged while in your custody because shipper has a signed delivery receipt saying it was ok when left with you. maybe your insurance will cover it happening on your property.

[Doug Miller]

Too bad you didn't work harder at preventing that unfortunate incident from happening to you.

I'm guessing that's probably because you make a habit of signing for deliveries before you inspect them, just as you did in the case you describe. I *have* seen them hang around, because my habit is to inspect first, and sign only after doing so *and* noting any problems I find. They don't really have much choice, you know: they cannot in any way compel me to sign the papers before I'm ready to do so, and they're not supposed to leave without a signature. So what are they going to do?

[RicodJour]

Sorry I can't join you in your self pity fest, Gnat. It's not my fault you signed without inspecting the shipment, and it most likely isn't Ziller's fault as the damage probably happened during shipping. So, ultimately, where does the fault lie? With you. Try not signing next time until you're satisfied. They'll wait around.

Damage during shipping is the responsibility of the shipper. Believe it or not, they actually carry _insurance_ for it! How come you didn't whine...err, sorry....try to prevent an unfortunate incident with the shipper from happening to someone else?

R

[Karl S]

You inspect it when you receive it and find nothing wrong, sign for it, ignore it for a week and then find something wrong. After all this time has passed you call Ziller and want a replacement? I think you are asking too much.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Why are you not taking it up with the carrier? They are the ones responsible and they have insurance to cover damaged goods. While the Ziller guy may have been bad mannered, he is correct. It is your responsibility to contact the carrier and make a claim. Some companies will go the extra mile to help you, but they have no obligation to do so.

That said, you should have opened the crate the same or next day. Waiting a week does make it more difficult to get you point across. How can you prove it was not banged in your garage?

[Vaughn Simon]

File a concealed damage claim with the shipping company. You are correct, no shipper has time to stand there while you open and inspect every shipment. Concealed damage claims are a normal thing. That said, If you did not buy extra insurance, the shipper may have very limited liability in the matter.

Vaughn

>

[Malcolm Hoar]

Perhaps. The OP should check the actual policies with his shipper and the carrier.

In many cases, the signature at delivery serves only as confirmation that the package was delivered and appears intact.

Many shippers specfically provide a grace period (often two days) during which time you need to open the packaging, inspect the contents and report any problems.

In my (limited) experience this is *very* common, even normal. However, not many suppliers give a full week for this task. As I recall, one generally has two days.

[Nate]

Appreciate the constructive input. I actually did a quick inspection that night but didn't get around behind the generator. I also assumed that anything strong enough to damage the generator would have damaged the cardboard. I never took into consideration the cardboard could be pushed, appear to be undamaged, but the soft aluminum housing would be damaged. I definitely could have avoided this by completely unpacking but I still would not expect to be treated the way I was by Ziller.

[m Ransley]

Same basic think happened to me I bought a 12500w unit from Loews, a Generac, and Generac promptly fixed what was not Loews problem, my muffler was smashed in. But Loews offered a replacement, I declined since Generac was taking care of it.

[dpb]

You're barking up the wrong tree here. It's the shipper you should file the claim against and you _certainly_ should have looked long before a week went by. Unfortunately, by not noting on the ticket the inspection was external crate condition only, you _may_ have some difficulty in making the claim for hidden damages, but that's still what you must do. And, again, by having waited for over a week by now, you certainly haven't made your chances of getting satisfaction any better.

Whatever, it _isn't_ Ziller's responsibility although it is nice when a vendor does go the extra mile to file the freight damage claim for you as many will. I don't know who Ziller is, but I'm guessing it may have been a case of you found the cheapest internet source you could find and now are surprised they aren't the most helpful in service. There's usually a reason for a vendor who is cheaper than some alternatives being that way...

[kellyj00]

Thanks for the tips fellas, I didn't know that signing for a package meant anything more than you recieved it.

I'll be sure to check anything I sign for for damage. Who cares if it puts the delivery guy out a bit...it'll put him out a lot more later when he has to come pick it up as part of a concealed damage issue.

[Doug Miller]

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't -- lesson is READ WHAT YOU'RE SIGNING.

[Oren]

And know when not to sign to sign and have to company take the items back.

We went to put in some 25 interior doors. At first site, I ask what happened? "They fell off the fork lift". "Who signed?" was my next question.

The company did make good on the damaged doors for the customer, but it still caused a night-mare.

-- Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

[barry]

Lighten up. Maybe you didn't read the whole thing, eh? Seems not.

J

[Tekkie®]

Nate posted for all of us...

You are a fundy dufus.

[Eeyore]

THE GOLDEN RULE

If you haven't inspected a package write *uninspected* by your name when signing for it.

Graham

[Oren]

Date it 2020 (on the signature), while you are at it. Mail your bills in with a lacking signature and a wrong zip code for the addressee Somebody will figure it out.

-- Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."