Basement slab weeping/leaking through bottom plate screw holes

[Bryan Scholtes]

I am finishing my basement. I used Tapcons to secure PT 2x4 to the basement slab.

After a week of heavy rains, I noticed that all the screw holes were weeping water. There was definite circles of moisture (but not standing water) coming from underneath the bottom plate.

So I am in need of expertise.

1. Does anybody know a Twin Cities expert with many years of basement experience? I will pay for expert (and I mean EXPERT) consulting from a grizzled veteran who's seen it all, and can express opinion without bias.

1. I am considering pulling each screw and injecting silicone into the holes, then re-driving the screw. What do you guys think? I was also considering polyurethane foam or epoxy. If I shoot epoxy down the hole, I'll NEVER get those bottom plates off.

[Jim Elbrecht]

-snip-

What you need to do is eliminate the water under your slab. You are wasting every bit of money and effort you put into that job until your water problem is fixed.

I don't think that epoxy is a good idea--- but why would you ever want to take those bottom plates off?

Jim

[hallerb]

OP postrer needs interior french drain before ANY FUTHER WORK

with a sump draining to a pump or ideally daylight

[Bryan Scholtes]

What do you think about just a sump pump? I suppose the water table may be the problem, as I've never had any water in the basement, ever, until now.

What would a french accomplish that a sump pump by itself wouldn't? I'm being sincere, I really don't know.

[aemeijers]

[e-mail] wrote: (snip)

As we have discussed on here before, drains belong OUTSIDE the wall. Sometimes an interior drain system may be the only practical alternative, but OP should look at all the usual suspects and cheap cures first. Yard grading, gutters, etc. From OP's description, this sounds like surface water getting under the slab, unless the water table fluctuates a lot in his area. Need to figure out where the water is coming in before doing anything.

OP, do you have a sump pit? Does it always have water in it? Is the leak on same end of basement? Another sump pit may be called for. Do you know if you have footer-level foundation drains, and where they drain to? If the drain point is accessible, they may need to be cleaned. Any sign of seepage or white crystals or mold growing on the walls? If walls are dry and clean, I suspect water is coming down outside the walls, and leaking in at footer level.

Here, in five years, my sump pit has stayed bone dry. Fixing outside grading in a few spots, and disabling the pipes idiot previous owner installed to direct downspout water straight down around the foundation, solved 98% of my problem of damp spots in corners. Even with failed sealing on outside of foundation, and failed foundation drains (if they were ever there) a little more landscaping and some epoxy injected into one rusted-out form tie hole, would dry me out completely. And my water table is only a couple feet below slab level.

[hallerb]

interior french drain collects water from all over basement area, directed by underground lines to a sump and pump or better a daylight drain its far superior to just a sump and pump which will only collect water from its immediate area.

before finishing basement you really must fix the moisture issue. otherwise mold bad odors etc will ruin your new room.let alone the possiblity of a flood someday:(

as to fix grade redirect downspout drains etc.

i spent over 8 grand doing that with new sidewalks steps etc and 6 months later still had a wet basement....

the interior french drain with sump cost $3500 bucks and i didnt have to do any work, i was the laborer for the 8 grand job without my bck breaking effort it would of been 12 grand:( took most of summer

sure fix obvious issues, but before finishing a basemet install proper drainage.

otherwise one storm can ruin all that work...........

and its far easier to install french drains with a nice open basement with no finished walls etc.

you CANT seal out water all you can do is direct it somewhere else!!

[jamesgangnc]

Can't help you with #1. You might find someone via this newsgroup but it's doubtful.

I agree with some of the other posters about looking ourtside first. Make sure that you have done everything you can to get the water away from the house. Extend the gutter drains a minimum of 10'. Correct any grading so you have lengthy slopes away form the house. If all that is already in place then the concenr would be that the water table is simply coming up under your basement floor. Have you ever had any water problems before? How long have you been in this house? Do you believe you drilled through the slab?

I agree about epoxy verses other solutions. It's a difficult choice. I know nothing adheres like epoxy and it is the most likely to remain adhered over the other options. But as you pointed out you will have to cut the tapcons off to remove them. If this is where the wall sare going to stay then maybe that is not an issue. The trouble with other solutions is that if they loose adherence to the concrete or tapcons some years down the road it will be difficult to redo them. I'd probably go epoxy. But I am an epoxy bigot :-)

You said this happened after a week of heavy rains. If this is as bad as it gets and you have never had water problems before then maybe this isn't a big deal. The pt is the right thing to connect to. I'm wondering if maybe you should use pt as the bottom plate on your wall as well so you have two layers. I would definately keep the insulation above the bottom. What wall coverings were you considering? Leave a healthy gap and prime the backside of the molding.

What's your schedule? Can you seal the holes and then take a break for a few months to see what happens?

[hallerb]

since water has been a issue even once its far better to do it once do it right then relax and enjoy your new room knowing it wouldnt have a water issue someday. DEFINTELY USE pressure treated wood for the bottom plate.

since no one knows for sure if the water table in the area is high, the french drain protects from all that with the gutter and weep holes at the bottom of al, exterior walls.

it might be 5 years till the 100 year storm floods his basement, so waiting isnt a reliable option.....

[Jim Elbrecht]

But still below the footings. A perimeter drain 18" below grade will do a little good-- but an interior perimeter drain will do more.

Jim

[dss]

Bryan,

How long have you lived in the house? I'm in Eagan and had some water in the basement last week for the first time in five years or so. I've been fighting the moisture thing for the last 25 years with reasonable success. It was really bad when we first moved in.

I find it hard to believe the Tapcons punctured the vapor barrier under your slab, unless they were over six inches long. Depending on the age of your house you may not have a barrier there. Were you in the house during our last 700 year flood (10 or 12 years ago?). My guess is you've always had a moisture problem, you just didn't have enough moisture to experience it.

Good luck.

dss

[cubby]

Do you have a drain tile and sump pump? I think you need one. I have used these guys in two homes for drain tiles, and one of my friends used them also on my recommendation. In my experience they are the best in the TC's. I would highly recommend. They are experts and will advise you exactly what you need. When I did my first house I had about 8 companies come out, and heard different suggestions from all of them and none of them seemed to really know what was going on. These guys identified the problem exactly and explained it to me clearly. It seems there are a lot of fly by nights in this market that don't really understand the finer points, but these guys at standard are proper experts with many years' experience. Can't hurt to get them out to have a look. Honestly, I have no affiliation with them.

[Paul Oman]

right out when the epoxy gets hard with the treads 'tapped' into the now hard epoxy paul oman/progressive epoxy polymers inc

[jamesgangnc]

An interior drain system is a huge job. I would not go there because

1 time he had some moisture where he penetrated the slab.

[cubby]

If water came up through holes in the slab, then best case he's going to have damp and mold issues. I wouldn't be finishing the basement without getting that checked out at least. In an unfinished basement it need not be a huge job.

[jamesgangnc]

If his problem is the water table then cutting into the slab is only going to make it worse. There is no certainty with anything but I'd start simple and watch it for a while.

[hallerb]

cutting into slab adding french drain and wall drains with sump pump will definetely fix the moisture problem forever....far cheaper than the other way............

exterior drains sound great but are costly. execavate all the way around your home, losing all plantings landscaping sidewalks patios etc AC compressor may be in way cut down a tree or two to get bachoe in back yard. have to dig BELOW footer level and even then a high water table directly under your home you can still get water in your basement. any paved areas must only be backfilled with gravel to pavement level or pavement may tip or move, and even if you do it perfect it may move anyway:(

scrub exterior walls super clean and paint with water proofingn and add drainage membrame/

dig a ditch to daylight somewhere, hopefully your home isnt the low spot of the neighborhood.

now regrade lawn the backhoe has things torn up and rutted, might as well replace the gas line the backhoe bumped while digging, new downspout underground drain lines too. now plant and water grass.........

home finally looks nice, county asseor noticed and raised homes value...and you needed building permit. nosey inspectors came visiting, is so and so up to code?

[cubby]

Well said.

OP needs to get the experts in now.

[aemeijers]

I still say retro-fit interior french drains are always a last-resort solution. They break the slab-to-footer connection. If water table is high enough, sub-floor drains should go in before slab is poured. I've personally seen one extreme installation, where a rich doctor simply HAD to have a basement even though local water table was high, and every other house in the sub was on a crawl or slab. Whole network of sub-slab perforated tile leading into 2 sump pits, and a doomsday overflow line leading into a precast manhole-size sump in front yard, so silly doctor could go rent a commercial pump and drop it in the hole in an extended power outage, and pump it out into street. Not sure where they thought it would go, other than into the neighbor's yards- whole sub was rather flat.

And yes, you CAN seal out water, with proper prep work as foundation is being built, as slab is poured, and wall sealer and proper footer drains installed before backfill is put in. They do it in swimming pools all the time. All a basement is, is a swimming pool with the water on the outside. That doesn't mean you don't need to grade the yard properly and have good gutters, of course, since nothing is perfect or lasts forever.

[jameswaters]

Apparently you drilled all the way thru the concrete to the gravel or soil base. Otherwise why would water be coming out of the concrete if it never did before. Normally you only drill in the depth of the Tapcons, and most concrete slabs are 4 inches or more. I would have only drilled in 2 inches and used Tapcons that are 3 inches long (going into slab 1.5 inches and thru 2x4 which is actually 1.5 inches.

Personally, I'd remove the 2x4s and seal all the holes with epoxy. Then glue the 2x4s to the slab with PL400 or something similar and wait for it to dry before attaching studs. Be sure to apply weight to that 2x4 after you apply the adhesive. Maybe just precut the studs and cram them against the ceiling joists avery few feet to press the adhesive tight.

Just my 2 cents as a retired builder.

[hallerb]

around here code requires french drain with every new home built. and exterior french drain too.

far too many wet basement complaints........

and would you really want to remodel a basement into a nice room/s then have water issues a year or two after spending all that money?

the time to fix this is before remodel......