Any risk in buying a house with finished basement without permit -Please advise

[bambam]

I believe there is. Neither you nor a home inspector can see through the walls. If the electrical wasn't permitted and inspected, how can you know whether or not it was properly done. Same thing with plumbing and gas. As to the bedroom, is there legal egress, and if there is and an enlarged window was installed, was it done correctly or was the structure compromised?.

I'm a contractor and I've seen enough unpermitted work (usually done by homeowners) that is poor practice and even unsafe to scare me off.

My wife and I are currently househunting ... when I come across one with an unpermitted finished basement, I value the basement development at minus three thousand dollars (the cost of tearing it out).

Ken

[I-zheet M'drurz]

I didn't sift through all of the sub-replies, just the top level. In case nobody mentioned these things:

1) The need for "permits" varies in every single municipality in the land. Some require a permit for everything, some have a specific list of projects, some classify need based on "changing the structural integrity..." or some similar wording. Check with your muni, that's the ONLY safe way to answer that. 2) As others have pointed out, don't confuse permits with the quality/safeness of the work. It may still be OK, you need an inspection to tell you that. 3) That's a lot of living space, and you can almost bet that it's not documented for tax assessment purposes. Count on the taxes going WAY up after the cat is out of the bag.

HTH.

[Tony Hwang]

[Steve]

who are you kidding?

[Frippletoot]

Sounds too much like what a certain relative of mine did...their new house's basement and roof leak and rather than fight with the builder, they finished the basement themselves, and covered the water damage stains, etc. They are planning on selling without disclosure, and now deny, even to family members who are well aware of all this, that it ever happened. In some areas codes are not really enforced, but lenders may feel otherwise about accepting this. It is up to you but at least get an inspection. Good luck, hope you find a good house soon.

[Brad]

I'm a DIYer and I've seen enough work by contractors that is poor practice and even unsafe. I have to live in the house so I trust my work much more than some guy who knows the aisles at Home Depot and has a sign on his truck.

So you don't even give it a chance. It's possible that the job is actually better than anything you might do.

[SteveB]

[SteveB]

"Brad" wrote

Doesn't the basement wall hold up some of the house?

Steve

[Brad]

I'm talking about what is basically just a partition wall that you put up when you finish a basement.

[Brad]

More importantly, who are you talking to?

[Terry]

Depends where you are IMHO. Insurance companies can be a different matter; especially when insurance industry profits are down! In this township the regulations about 'finishing' a basement are pretty relaxed. Most people wouldn't even think about a permit (if one is even required!) and the town doesn't seem to check. Finishing out a basement area is generally seen as someone having 'improved' the property and added to its market/resale value. Many homeowners here are excellent do it your selfers, are in the construction industry themselves or have relatives/friends who help them out. But next time (maybe five/ten years later) a tax assessment is done the 'improvement' may be picked up and the assessed value increased; to the surprise and remorse of the owner! The 'new' owner of a purchased property, having made no changes themselves during those years, then demands to know why 'his' assessment has increased! There was a recent house fire (caused by an electrical malfunction on or near the main panel, at night; the three occupants were lucky to get out alive! Fortunately none were sleeping in the basement which had only one exit although some of the basement windows were at or above grade level, which would have possibly been an escape if required. AFIK the homeowner got everything fixed by his insurance company; after all they insured the house for him just the way he bought it from the original/previous owner! But the owners son told me that the insurance company found that the rapid spread of the fire and an amount of the damage was aggravated by the manner in which the basement had been 'finished' by the previous owner. Specifically there was a lack of fire blocking and there were large air spaces behind the wood framed finished basement uprights walls, which had been added. The original structure was comprised of partial concrete walls with a wood framed 'knee wall' on top of the concrete, supporting the main floor. As a result of the basement being 'finished' there was, for example, a large open air space behind the added interior 'basement' wall above the concrete wall that allowed the fire, once started to spread quickly along one whole side of the house. So beware of a) Risky construction and b) What your insurance might NOT cover; quite apart from c) Risk of death injury to your family! Terry.

[David W.]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

It depends on the area. You'll have to ask (probably the local building/inspection office) what's necessary, and what it would take to remedy the situation.

When my FIL went to the city (small town in Texas) and asked what he needed to do to put an addition on his house, the guy gave him a funny look and said, "Go build it!" In other words, no permits or inspections were require d(only for septic, which he wasn't doing).

[Patscga]

The writer didn't have a basement built; he just "finished" it. Pat

[Patscga]

I'm not trying to kid anybody. I'm a real estate broker in Atlanta, GA. I also am a home owner. I also have neighbors who finished basements themselves and never had inspections and the houses sold several times after that. I also have had contractors who have told me they would forego the inspections in order to save me me from having my property taxes raised. I also have reported one of these contractors and was told by the County inspection office that people do that all the time and there's nothing they can do about it. Pat

[jmagerl]

Speaking from experience: My current house had a third bedroom added and a garage finished into living space and a new garage built without permits (at least that I can tell). All done by a DIY'er. It even made it into a national magazine as a model project. THings that were done wrong: Grade raised above the top of foundation, Hot and Nuetral reversed in the garage refinish, Skylights installed wrong, Bay windows installed wrong, THe upgrage to 100 amp service did not upgrade the wire leading to the house (so it burnt out when I turned the AC on), Roof flashing installed wrong, septic tank sized for a 2 bedroom house, high effiency furnace with no flue liner, lack of GFI's, radiant heating system incorrectly installed. I could go on but I'm too busy scratching my head on why some things were done.

Don't get me wrong, I love my house and am slowly correcting things but the home inspection only caught 2 of the issues. Proper permits and inspections would have found most of them. Flags should go up if the work was done by a DIY'er and a more thorough inspection performed. My bank did not even care if there were permits for past work.

[Brad]

Please learn to quote the article to which you are responding.

[Phisherman]

Good point. I'd prefer to have my house (or one to buy) inspected for safety reasons, but not by a government official.

[Basha]

Thanks for all your comments.

The first step I am going to do today is going to the muncipal office and enquire about this. I will also talk to one of the city inspectors.

I will post the happenings.

Thanks again.

[Patscga]

Tlle me what I did wrong. Pat

[avoidspam]

The point that you seem to have completely missed is that the work was done without permits or inspections - regardless of how good the homeowner may be at doing the work the fact remains that if they didn't do it in accordance with codes that were current at the time and then have it inspected and it passed, you are left with relying on any faith you have in the unknown homeowner ability not to cross the wires or connect the gas lines to the water lines!

The other point that was developed as the thread went along was the fact that features that were potentially hazardous to the health and safety of the occupants may have been ignored by the homeowner, i.e. proper egress from the area that was finished.

It can have a chance if at least it could be proved that it was not necessarily better, but at least that it was in conformance with the established standards and codes - no permits = no inspections leave you with a mystery!