Any chemists? Need HCl advice

G. Morgan wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@Osama-is-dead.net:

It all depends on what the ring is. If it is grime and dirt, soap and a brush should get it. If it is rust (not uncommon), then strong HCl (also called muriatic acid) is one possible treatment. Another is oxalic acid solution with a bit of vinegar or HCl. The reasoning is that FeCl3 is nicely soluble in water, but FeCl2 or rather Fe(OH)2 is not. That is the first step in the formation of rust. That means you want to oxidize the Fe2+ to Fe3+ and have chloride ions there to help dissolve the Fe3+ ions. Oxalic acid is an oxidizer, moreover, it is a chelating agent (it sort of envelops each Fe3+ ion, and keeps it in solution). Keep it acid to prevent reduction to Fe2+ and Fe hydroxide and rust formation.

Reply to
Han
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Bleach with vinegar? Do you mean bleach with ammonia?

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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Yes. Now I have been mixing bleach with vinegar to produce chlorine gas to do some odor control. Its highly dangerous. Hcl is going to do it better.

Greg

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Not right away. The inertia of the "flush" water carries all of the water through the trap, then the tank slowly adds water to fill the bowl. You can USUALLY raise the level at least an inch or two by SLOWLY adding more water. Depends how full your throne is after a flush - some will hold an extra SIX inches of water before the siphon starts. You can fill to the level of the top of the trap safely. On my downstair unit that's 2 inches over a "Long" flush and 6 inches over a "short" one (dual flush)

Reply to
clare

Stick a balloon full of salt water in the bowl - it will seal it up very well. Poke it with a sharp stick to drain. Salt water makes it heavy enough to sink reliably if you don't leave any air in it.

Reply to
clare

Use naval jelly.

Reply to
recyclebinned

Bleach with ammonia produces other harmful gases other than chlorine.

Greg

Reply to
gregz

This is what we use to use on our fiberglass boat in the 70's with the seaweed / saltwater scum around the paint line or waterline of the boat. Not sure where we learned it from but it worked well.

Reply to
Doug

gregz wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.or g:

Bleach plus ammonia produces phosgene, used in WWI in gas warfare. NOT GOOD in the house. AVOID at all costs mixing those 2.

Reply to
Han

Depends how full your throne is after a

In my world, that's a toilet where the toilet isn't set up to correctly fill after flushing. Of course if you don't fill the bowel completely, then you can add more water. But the toilets I've had both new and old are designed to fill right up to the trap level. Just checked it on both a 30 year old one and a 7 year old one.

Well I guess there are some either designed to work that way or later set up so that they don't fill the bowel completely.

Reply to
trader4

snipped-for-privacy@Osama-is-dead.net:

If it's rust that's the problem, one of the rust removers available for that purpose at HD, hardware store, etc for $5 works instantly. I just pour it on and the rust stain disappears. However, nothing so far suggests that it's a rust problem. Most stubborn rings I've seen are not rust, but composed of other minerals.

Reply to
trader4

BS

Reply to
Steve Barker

Your water level does not increase after taking a good leak?

Reply to
Thomas

Mine doesn't. I think it comes down to this. What level does the toilet get refilled to after flushing? On all the toilets I've had they were set up so that the water level came up to the max level in the bowl. If it's at that level, then taking a leak does not increase it. The refilling of the bowl is done by having the float valve supply a small stream of water down the overflow tube. Until recently that stream was generous enough that by the time the tank was full the bowl was more than full and the excess was going down the drain.

I just installed a Fluidmaster replacement float valve where you can now adjust the water flow to the overflow tube via a squeeze clamp. It's part of saving water. The idea being you don't need excess water, you just need enough to fill the bowl completely. They give the procedure for adjusting, which is basicly to note the max water level in the bowl and then adjust the overflow fill rate so that it just fills the bowl to max level at the time when the tank filling ends. So, apparently Fluidmaster thinks a toilet bowl should be full to max level.

So, I understand the traditional fill it all the way up approach. I'd be interested in how exactly one sets the water level, controls it, even knows what it should be in these toilets that get filled to 2" to 6" below the max level. I guess I can see that happening in a commercial toilet with a different flushing mechanism, but not in the typical residential toilet. Not in mine that range from 30 years old to 7 years old.

Reply to
trader4

I've never dealt with HCl, so I'll ask:

How much HCl added to a toilet filled with water to above the ring would it take to dissolve the rag quickly enough that water runs out and the HCl does not accomplish the goal of cleaning the ring?

Somewhere in there I'm assuming there is a balance between how much "dilluted-by-the-water" HCl is needed to clean the ring and how much "dilluted-by-the-water" HCl it would take to dissolve the rag before the ring work is done.

Perhaps never the twain shall meet.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

I'm not buying it. Where does the carbon atom come from?

Reply to
krw

" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

You're right. I was mistaken. It's hydrazine that is potentially produced, also a dangerous compound.

Reply to
Han

Chlorine isn't dangerous enough for you?

Reply to
krw

When I drain my main vein to make my bladder gladder, MY water level DECREASES.

Can't speak to the level in the toilet.

Reply to
HeyBub

" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

september.

Chlorine is dangerous, but you'd have to really use a lot of bleach and do something insane to get enough to really harm anyone. AFAIK, bleach is still easily available ...

Reply to
Han

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news:10233140.2321.1335323588302.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynlp2:

Something safer is Iron Out. It is a white powder that I use to clean my well filter when it is full of iron bacteria and manganese. Nothing else helped like CLR, toilet bowl cleaners, etc, but this stuff soaks ot clean in about 20 seconds. It gives off some fumes so I keep a fan running to blow clean air at sink where I work. I buy it at plumbers supply and lately I have seen it at Rona.

Reply to
Reno

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