Alcoholics Anonymous is going out of business

[DerbyDad03]

I won't claim to know much about carbohydrates and simple sugars, but I am able to find many references that say things like this...

"Each type of alcohol has different amounts of carbohydrates. The carbohydrates in alcohol are derived from simple sugars and are therefore, high in calories. The simple sugars in alcohol are typically higher in some kinds of alcohol than others ..."

However, the chemical makeup of an alcoholic drink wasn't the point of my comments, so let's not get hung up on that.

Perhaps I worded my earlier post incorrectly, but you can find numerous articles on many medical websites that discuss the connections between alcoholism and sugar cravings, hypoglycemia, etc.

My only point is that "alcoholism is a disease" and "alcoholism is a lack of self-control" can coexist in the same discussion.

Sugars and carbs not withstanding, the "disease" causes alcoholics to process (and therefore crave) alcohol differently than others. Enter the "self control" portion: It takes a huge amount of self control for the alcoholic to mentally overcome the craving for the first drink that sets up the subsequent diseased based cravings.

I'm not arguing against the relationship between self-control or will- power and alcoholism - in fact I agree 100% that no one can stop drinking without it. One has to *choose* not to take that first drink each day, just like the heart disease patient has to *choose* to change their life style and just like the cancer patient has to

*choose* to go to chemo sessions. Making the choice to fight the disease every day takes will-power and self control.

My simple claim is that "alcoholism is a disease" and "alcoholism is a lack of self-control" are not mutually exclusive. They are both correct.

[Doug Miller]

I'm sure you can. There's a lot of nonsense masquerading as fact on the 'net.

Almost completely bullshit.

"Derived from simple sugars" is not the same as *contains* simple sugars.

All carbohydrates have the same calorie content, gram for gram, regardless of what they're derived from.

And there are *no* sugars in alcohol. The simplest sugar, glucose, has six carbon atoms per molecule. Ethyl alcohol has only two.

I'm not arguing that -- I'm just saying that it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with sugar in any way.

[DerbyDad03]

Then we're good!

(Although I don't think others will be...)

[usenet-659f31de7f953aeb]

Then why does alcohol make you fat? It's not a protein, and it's not a fat, therefore it must be a carbohydrate of some form. But it's not a sugar, and it's too simple to be a starch. So what is it? How does it convey calories to the body?

[Doug Miller]

What, you think you can get fat only from eating too much sugar?? News flash, pal: you can get fat from eating whole wheat bread. All you need to do to get fat is to eat a lot more calories than you burn up. Doesn't matter what form those calories come in.

It's metabolized as a carbohydrate.

[AZ Nomad]

Know any fat vodka alkies? All the fat alkies I've know were beer drinkers.

[usenet-659f31de7f953aeb]

You know there's more simple sugar in a slice of bread than in a spoonful of fruit jam, don't you? And all that starch! All complex carbs are built up from chains of simple sugars, and digestion converts them back to simple sugars. The whole grains aren't that bad, but your typical store-bought bread contains plenty of flour that isn't whole-grain.

It's easier, far easier, to pack on weight by eating carbs. Try it. Try eating *nothing* but fat and protein for a month, in unlimited quantities, and tell me how much weight you gain. Won't be much, I guarantee.

It sets off many of the same metabolic processes as carboyhdrates, including the insulin process that gives you the feelings of a "sugar rush" and the ensuing "sugar crash", and leads to craving more of the same....

[Doug Miller]

To put it charitably, you don't have the least idea what you're talking about. Insulin is not involved in any way in the metabolism of alcohol.

[DerbyDad03]

re: "It sets off many of the same metabolic processes as carboyhdrates, including the insulin process that gives you the feelings of a "sugar rush" and the ensuing "sugar crash", and leads to craving more of the same...."

I *think* that's what I was trying to explain earlier in this thread when I was so soundly beaten about the head and shoulders regarding my poorly-worded comments about alcohol containing sugar.

If not, let the beating continue...

[Doug Miller]

Except for one thing: that's nonsense too. Alcohol is metabolized by ethanol dehydrogenase, not by insulin.

[usenet-659f31de7f953aeb]

Sorry, I only speak from experience. I've spent a lot of time on a low-carbohydrate diet for weight loss. In that context, alcohol does indeed act just like a carbohydrate. It ends ketosis and causes a noticeable stall in weight loss, just as readily as table sugar or a potato. And like carbs, alcohol does set off cravings for...something. Unpleasant. But draw your own conclusions, as I'm sure you will. Er, already have.

You're not going to try eschewing carbohydrates for a month, are you?

[Doug Miller]

Oh, you have experience with insulin metabolizing alcohol, do you? ROTLFMAO!

None of which means that alcohol is a sugar, or is metabolized as one.

Yes, indeed, I have -- I've drawn the conclusion that the scientists are correct, and you don't know what you're talking about.

You didn't even read the link I provided, did you?

That makes even less sense than the rest of your post.

[usenet-659f31de7f953aeb]

Doug, you are so anxious to be right that you have completely forgotten the point of this discussion. Congratulations.