a problem with electric meters?

[Stormin Mormon]

Maybe the people who run Mom's Gas and snacks can figure out how to get the program code for Pop's Fuel and Munchies, and shut down their meter, to put em out of business?

Middle of the summer, Rachel, who works for Progressive Gas and Electric shuts down the meter of her ex boyfriend, Martin, right in the middle of Martin's football game?

Right at the peak of the election, Progressive Gas and Electric shuts down the meters, at the Republican and the Tea party offices?

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

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I've never seen anything in widespread use that couldn't be hacked. It just means you'll have to know something about smart meters and how they work rather than how to use a pair of pliers.

Tomsic

[clare]

My power use varies more from day to day when I'm home than it does between home and away.

[clare]

A smart METER cannot load shed - it cannot selectively control loads. A "smart center" can. We don't have them yet in Ontario, and I can't see them coming for quite some time as they will rquire TOTAL RETROFIT of EVERY service panel to make them work. The electrical utility won't pay for it - and no provinvial government that mandates the homeowner pays for it will EVER be re-elected.

[gfretwell]

You are right, the meter has nothing to do with load sheading. I had that in my condo for a while and it involves a sealed control box that intercepts your feeds to the selected equipment. They installed for free but when they stopped the program they abandoned the equipment in place and I would have had to pay to have it removed. The HVAC guys ripped it out when I replaced the A/C unit.

[Hell Toupee]

Our local utility has offered that as an option for decades. If you join the program, they install the switch on your a/c unit. It cycles the a/c off and on at 15-20 minute intervals. In return, you get a 15% discount on your electric bill from June through September. During peak demand (10-15 days a year), they remotely activate the switches

As for all the fearmongering about smart meters and their mythical health effects, it's hard to take that seriously when the very people screeching about it don't. The majority of them think nothing about using their cellphones and other radio frequency-employing convenience devices. As for the supposed privacy issues, public and private organizations already have access to so much household and personal data, it wouldn't make much difference. Your local utility can provide you with a spreadsheet showing energy consumption by household so you can compare your usage to your neighbors. Smart meters would only fine-tune the data by plotting usage against time.

[Gordon Burditt]

I thought one of the cases for smart meters was that they allowed the utility to avoid having to build more generating capacity for peak loads and replace it with "greenouts": shutting off heavy loads in a house such as heating/air conditioning, water heaters, clothes washers/ dryers, etc. without shutting off the whole house. It's also one of the reasons for "smart appliances". This probably saves the utility a lot of money. It still amounts to Unreliable Service(tm) but they get to call it something else.

What they don't tell you is that the time they will shut off the air conditioning is when it's 87 inside (with the thermostat set something lower, it doesn't really matter how much lower because the A/C can't keep up) and 108 outside (yes, this is in Texas).

TXU is now advertising a plan you can switch to "nights are free". I think it's more of a gimmick to get people to switch electric providers than anything else. But anyone taking that plan will want to switch optional use (like clothes washers/dryers) to whatever hours are considered "night".

I think removing the need to build generating capacity saves them more.

[gfretwell]

Smart meters have nothing to do with selectively shedding loads. You need equipment in each of those branch circuits to do that. They can do metering by time of day.

I also doubt they allow the PoCo to shut off the power remotely. That would require a pair of triacs inside the meter that could handle

200a. The I2R losses of those triacs would melt the meter base.

[Jim Yanik]

[e-mail] (Gordon Burditt) wrote in news:apKdnW- o0YZWb13SnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

And more....

"more EQUITABLY"? how is that "more equal",charging different rates for different times of the day? IMO,that is just a revenue scam. Generates more money and discourages people from running AC or heavy appliances at certain times.

I already have a meter that is remotely read. but it's only read once a month,and doesn't keep track of WHEN I'm using power.

it's not that many utilities need to build more capacity,it's that Comrade Obama is forcing many coal plants to shut down. It's part of his attack on the US economy,punishing the "evil wealthy America" by lowering our standard of living.

Just look at the big picture. connect the dots.

[gfretwell]

I can't speak for the meter you have but FPL is installing the GE 210+

It is just an electronic meter, no "cut off" hardware or anything else

This meter feeds a low power RF device inside the meter that communicates with a transmitter on the pole and from there it relays the info to the utility in real time.

Silver Spring NIC 314

The meter seems to be capable of transmitting a couple hundred yards based on the distribution of the pole mounted access units.

[krw]

What the smart meter does do, is give the PC a data link into your home, which

*can* be used for load shedding.

AIUI, some do it. It's not likely using triacs, though. 250W, or so, would make the meter a tad warm. ;-)

[krw]

Because incremental kWh cost more than those already on line. If the peaks can be clipped, less capacity is necessary.

...and why would those "certain times" be important?

Yet. ;-)

I thought he was. ;-)

[Gordon Burditt]

I've heard the same argument about "equitable distribution of costs" to argue for everyone having a toll booth at the end of their driveway.

That's exactly what they want to do: spread out the peak load. Although it's hard to convince people to run A/C only at night, it might be possible to move uses like clothes washing and drying, hot water, and perhaps some cooking.

If you had rolling blackouts in your area at any time during the past few years not caused by catastrophic problems like tornadoes, floods, and hurricanes (these don't usually cause *rolling* blackouts unless one hit some generators), you need more generating capacity in your area. That seems to happen fairly often during really hot days in summer and occasionally during really cold evenings in winter.

It doesn't matter WHY they need more generating capacity, they still need it. And smart meters were being planned long before Obama was elected. Rolling blackouts are not new with Obama, either.

[dpb]

...

But if the EPA reg's put into place on his watch actually go into effect the number and duration will skyrocket like nothing ever seen in the US before. :(

[HeyBub]

Oh, they can do it.

[krw]

Sure, but a triac has about a 1.4V "ON" voltage, probably higher at these currents. At 200A, that's 280W. Number one, that's wasted power, and two, it's a *lot* of heat to get out of the meter. Can, but does?

[clare]

No, smart METERS cannot do that.

A smart METER cannot selectively shut off, or shed, loads. A smart "center" can (load center - or service panel)

As we now do with the 3 level charging - run the heavy, optional stuff in the low charge "night" period.

Not if every home does the same thing. It can ammount to several large power stations not needing to be built.

At the cost of significant investment in technology - so no, I have to disagree that it is "the REAL" reason. Remote reading could be added to a standard meter, or "customer read" with quarterly or by-annual "agent read" to verify honesty can also be used - and have been in several areas.

Most definitely.

[clare]

No- it is strictly supply and demand pricing. By charging more when more power is used, and less when less is used, the actual cost of generating capacity is more equally spread across the units of power consumed. To have the CAPACITY to supply more power at peak times means building more CAPACITY, which is wasted when the demand is low. Much more sensible to equalize demand so unused capacity is used, and no extra capacity needs to be built. Remember, AC power cannot be stored for later use, andfiring up and shutting off generator capacity is NOT simple, or cheap.

[clare]

SOME can do it. There ARE smart meters in use, world-wide, that only supply power when you have a credit balance. When your credit runs out, the power goes off - and you go to the meter with your credit or debit card, and "recharge" the meter to turn the lights back on.

That is NOT the kind of "smart meter" being installed by MOST local power authorities in Canada and the USA

[Jim Yanik]

[e-mail] (Gordon Burditt) wrote in news:7c2dneEYD-Mqu1zSnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

that STILL doesn't make it "equitable",or "more equal".that's just Newspeak. a SNOW JOB for the naive and gullible.

that is due more to bad planning and local opposition to electric plants than anything else.(the "green movemnt,the ecocommunists) BUT,it's -fact- that Comrade Obama's EPA rules are shuttng down coal fired plants and reducing capacity.He has a goal.

"once is accidental,twice is coincidence,three times is enemy action." Comrade Obama blocked nuclear power by closing Yucca Mountain,is going after coal via EPA,has blocked Gulf and ANWR oil drilling,and is now going after fracking,doing everything possible to block US oil production. He killed the Keystone XL pipeline. Coal,oil,and nuclear is over 70% of US energy sources. See a pattern here? there's a concerted effort by Comrade Obama to reduce US energy supplies,which DIRECTLY diminishes the US economy. It's all part of his efforts to weaken the US economically,politically,and militarily.

if we didn't have a FEDGOV intent on blocking US energy sources,we would not need "smart meters". ISTR that the energy Dept. was created to IMPROVE US energy supplies,not stifle them.

[clare]

smart center