200 Amp Service, Tankless water heater

[Ralph Mowery]

While the elements are 4500 watts, only one of the elements are on at a time, not both.

[Ralph Mowery]

For the technology advancement don't you want the newer heat pump type of water heater ?

[Jack Lapin]

Tankless only advantage is to save space and to provide a continuous supply of hot water. The rest is all marketing fluff.

[clare]

In the real world, at north american energy costs, they will NEVER pay for themselves within their normal lifespan. and that is if nothing breaks down in between.

[Jerry.Tan]

If this is the case, I do see how the upgrade is needed. But I know I'd never do it. I dont know the cost of those tankless heaters, but I heard they are high. Then add the cost of the power upgrade and probably more plumbing changes and electrical cable runs, and it sounds like many thousands of dollars.

Even if I save $20 a month over the cost to operate my electric tank type water heater, there would still be no savings after 10 years and probably more. By tha time, it might be time to start thinking about a replacement tankless heater. I dont know the life span of them, but everything fails over time. . . . . .

[clare]

Pex, mabee - if they don't come up with something better in the meantime. Tankless heaters - not very likely. In Europe, mabee. In florida, possibly. In minnesota, or Alberta, not unless global warming progresses a lot faster than expected.

[Ed Pawlowski]

But what about the children? We have to conserve for them. I plan to leave each of my grandkids five gallons of #2 oil, and great grandkids

10 gallons.

[Arthur Conan Doyle]

That's true, but does not take the lifecycle cost of installation and operation into account. Storage tank heat loss is far lower than most people realize. Especially with the new insulation standards for heaters now being sold.

Tankless heaters cost more to purchase, more to install and require regular maintenance. They also have their quirks in that they don't handle low flow demand very well. They rarely make economic sense in a retrofit situation as getting sufficient electrical or gas supply can be an issue.

They make a nice selling point for new construction since getting sufficient electrical or gas service usually is minor at builkd time and the additional cost is buried in the overall cost of the house. Not sure most people realize they need to have scheduled service calls, but hey - the get the warm fuzzy feeling.

[Ed Pawlowski]

New tanks are very well insulated. A couple with the same indirect fired 4o gallon tank that I have went on vacation for a week. They turned the heat off when they left and forgot about it. Wife took a shower, then husband took a shower and noticed at the end the water was starting to get cold. Only then did they realize the heat was off for a week. I'd say that is pretty good insulation.

[bob haller]

oe night I came home and found my old tank type heater leaking, so i turned off the gas and water.

near 24 hours later i got a nice hot shower. the water in the tank was still hot..

the old tank held the heat well.

[Jerry.Tan]

That must have been a mighty DRY shower with the water turned off :)

[clare]

Mabee many, but definitely not most When the water coming in can be in the mid 30s to low 40s F getting water hot enough for a decent shower would take 2 in series. Will take a lot more "tech advancing" - and MOST houses don't have big enough gas or electrical service to handle even one of the energy suckers.

[bob haller]

plus add FLOW. One person living alone not a biggie. enough flow to do one thing at a time.

now a busy home with 4 people living there, laundry going, perhaps 2 showers going at same time. add incoming low water temperature say in the 30s.

now a conventional tank normally always has some hot water. even in a power failure.

we had a 4 day power outage, it was nice to have hot showers available.....

imagine cold showers.

the only thing tankless do is elminate standby losses.....

with the new standards requiring better insulation etc, standby losses are reduced, and they werent large to begin with.

standby losses help heat your home in cold climates so they arent a big issue to begin with.

I upsized my tank a lot..... from a 30 gallon 3400 BTU tank. after a few larger tanks my current one is 75 gallon, 75,000 BTU.

I can get a nice hot shower while washing clothes, we have 2 washers and 2 dryers. all gas....

[Ed Pawlowski]

Family of 20? can't imagine a family of say, 5 to 7 or so needing that capacity.

[bob haller]

most people we have had is 6.....

2 washers and 2 dryers is all about doing laundry fast, it saves trips up and down the steps. that matters both me and my GF have bad knees

[Scott Lurndal]

Have to wonder where you live that the incoming water temperature is in the 30s. Given that the ground temperature below the frost line generally hovers around the annual average temperature for the area (e.g. 53 degrees in central wisconsin), it seems that a supply temperature in the 30s would be unusual.

"Throughout most of the U.S., the temperature of the ground below the frost line (about 3 to 5 feet below the surface) remains at a nearly constant temperature, generally in the 45 ? -50? F range in northern latitudes, and in the 50 ? -70 ? F range in the south."

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

Yes. I remember really liking a hot shower during a power outage because of an ice storm. The outage won't wait for warm weather.

[snip]

[clare]

Well, in Guelph Ontario there are still a couple hundred homes with no water due to frozen lines. The water lines are over 4 feet down, which in normal winters is below the frost line. This year it was not. Incoming water here in Waterloo a couple weeks ago was 38F.. Not sure what it is right now.