2- vs. 3-prong outlets

Certificate of Occupancy (as someone already answered). In my case I needed it to sell a home.

A GFI in our bathroom failed with the "tester" because there was no ground. I grounded the outlet with a clip-lead to a copper pipe, and the GFI worked fine.

So, in theory, I agree that a ground is not needed. I'm not sure that is true in practice. And the best response for a Code Inspector is "Yes, Sir". :+)

Do they make "two prong" GFCIs? I guess the GFI "breakers" are the best answer (except for the trip to the basement everytime one trips).

Jay

Jay

OK. Let me correct this. The "tester" failed to trip the GFI. Maybe it would work if you jammed a fork in the slots or something. I wasn't about to argue with the Code Inspector for a $10 fix.

Jay

First your created a serious human safety problem. No wire must connect to a pipe to dump electricity in that pipe. The electrical inspection probably failed because an outlet without ground did not have the necessary (code required) label "No equipment ground". So instead, you created a threat to human life.

GFI works when test button is pressed because that is how a GFI works. Electrical inspector simply discovered a missing ground on a three prong plug without any indication of that missing ground - a code violation. He did not fail the GFI. He failed the missing safety ground. Now for that pipe problem. Again, you have created a human safety problem especially for people standing in water in a bathroom.

The idea is not to pass the > A GFI in our bathroom failed with the "tester" because there was no

"Precisely as safe", huh? I suppose so....it's "precisely as safe" as some dumbo using an adaptor without establishing that the coverplate screw is grounded and then connecting the adaptor's ground lug to it. Three wire cords and grounded outlets were developed to protect users from internal insulation failures in metal bodied tools and appliances. They wouldn't have made that transition if there wasn't a growing history of electrocutions from those kind of failures.

What you've overlooked is this: Someone (Me for example.) who's taken the trouble to learn and understand why they started making grounded outlets and tools and appliances with ground leads in their cords could be snookered into believing they're "protected" when they're not, fooled by that ungrounded 3-prong outlet you seem to think is no big deal. That's not quite as bad as knowingly locking a door marked "Fire Exit" from the outside, but from my point of view it's in the same vein.

Your responses lead me to the inescapable conclusion that your entire alimentary tract has somehow become reversed...You'd profit from having that condition corrected.

Jeff

Ah.. That's different. The test-device failed to trip the GFCI because it tried to produce a ground-fault to the ground plug. The GFCI didn't trip because there was no fault.

That's pretty much the situation I'm in as well. My house was built in the early 1920s and the original portion has all 2-prong outlets and an old fusebox. The new 1960s addition has a breaker box on the other side of the house and all 3-prong grounded outlets.

One of these days I'd love to run a new sub-panel to my detached garage/worshop, but it would have to be off the new breaker box and that's a HELL of a long run for wiring. The current power supply is run off the fusebox and there's nothing I can change there without replacing the entire box, which I'll do eventually but it's very low priority.

Wish I had a solution for the problem.

As far as your problem is concerned, you can replace the 2-prong outlet with a GFCI that is designed to be non-grounded, they are available at any home center. They do still make 2-prong but they seem to be pretty hard to come by in some areas.

But that is what our breaker box does. The ground connects to the water main. It was like that when we moved in. Is it now code to drive a rod into the ground for an approved ground?

I bought a tester as well. It failed to trip (in addition to indicating the missing ground.) Fixing the ground fixed both problems. Maybe the testers isn't worth a damn, but it certainly showed more than the "test" button on the GFI box.

I grounded a previously ungrounded circuit. The 14/2 wiring was effectively 14/0 (floating ground). The ground no longer floats and goes to earth ground through half inch copper pipe. I would think I made the entire circuit safer in that now all the fixture housings are grounded to earth ground rather than floating.

The prime directive was to make the house safe. Passing the inspection was a goal, however.

Thanks for your comments, Jay

If the "tester" the inspector used "tested" the GFI by shunting current to the ground prong, there's two possibilities:

There's a third possibility: he figured that getting a "real ground" was sufficiently easy that you _should_ do it anyway. The fact that you could for $10 means it was worth it.

I suggest you peruse

Test button on GFI makes GFI respond to the only thing GFI sees. Yes, the ground is helpful to make receptacle safer for human. But a new human safety threat has been created that probably cannot be found by future owners.

Again, never dump electricity into a pipe. The connection from breaker box to water pipe is to remove electricity (a fault) from that pipe (water pipe connection must also be five feet from where pipe contacts earth ground). Since early

Why did inspector fail that GFI? Because it had no safety ground AND did not say it had no safety ground. So instead of connecting to a safety ground or instead of installing that required label, you dumped electricity into the pipes. You did not fix the problem. You cured a symptom.

What happens when the plumber replaces metal pipe with plastic. You must assume that will happen because he might do just that. Now we have an even worse safety problem. Failed appliance dumping electricity into a pipe. Electricity finds no path to breaker box, so circuit breaker does not trip. Human, standing in bathtub water, touches faucet and dies. All because the symptom of a problem was cured rather than problem cured.

Never dump electricity into pipes - a human safety problem.

Value and purpose of tester: it can find a failure but will never prove wiring is correct. For example, a 36 AWG sliver could fall down and make a ground connection. Tester would declare ground as OK. But ground is not. When that safety ground is necessary, instead the sliver vaporizes or disconnects. Tester does not report a good condition. Tester only reports failures.

Test button on GFI tests GFI operation. Tester's test button tests for a missing safety ground. Each button looks for a different failure. It does sound rather complicated. But this is directly traceable to a problem created before

BTW, if you think routing a safety ground wire cannot be done, the you have not seen why electrician have all those fancy tools and tricks. The best solution remains a safety ground wire to that outlet. Some interconnected appliances may be intermittent or damaged if that equipment ground is not provided - a concept that may be beyond the scope of this original problem. But another reason why that attached "no ground" provides useful information.

Jay wrote: