I have a home that was built in the '50's and want to replace some of the 2-prong electrical outlets with 3 prong outlets (the third prong being the ground). Following all the normal safety precautions can I simply install a 3 prong outlet in its place, leaving the ground unconnected? I know this will defeat the whole purpose of a ground, I'm just looking to have to stop using adaptors anytime I want to plug in a three pronged device (which also defeats the purpose of the ground). Aside from losing out on the safety aspect, are there any other risks to doing this?
Otherwise, what's involved in running a ground? Is it complicated for a DIY'er? (maybe if I have to ask, I shuldn't try it). Or would installing GFCI outlets be an alternative? Thanks!!
SAFETY is and should always be the #1 reason to follow the rules. You are a fool to even consider such an installation. Other complications certainly include liability when someone either in the near or distant future gets hurt because of hooking things up this way.
I agree that YOU shouldn't try it. If you would even consider running without a proper ground, you are probably the kind that would take a lot of shortcuts, and wouldn't make sure the system was properly inspected and SAFE when you are done.
I'm not looking to take shortcuts and put safety at risk, Currently half of the outlets are the older 2 prong variety (all in kitchen/bath/livingroom are updated). We just have a few outlets in hall ways and bedrooms that are older 2 prong still. the only devices that get plugged into these are 2 prong devices likes vacuum, and the laptops which are three prong (using an adaptor). We're repainting the hallways and I was going to upgrade these outlets more for looks now (to white outlets) and when money is less tight have them grounded. I'm just wondering if there is risk (ie fire, etc) due to hooking 3 prong outlets to ungrounded box.
We plan on grounding eventually. How big a job is this for experienced electrician? The outlets are all on 1st floor of a ranch and the finished basement below has suspended ceilings (ie access to flooring above by moving tiles).
NEC does allow 2 prong receptacles to be replaced with 3 prong receptacles _IF_ they are GFCI protected. What you need to do is find in first outlet in each circuit, then install a GFCI receptacle at that location, feeding the downstream receptacles through that GFCI receptacle. All the downstream receptacles can then be replaced with reguler 3 prong receptacles to meet NEC requirements. If line and load are not available at the first outlet, another soltion is to use GFCI breakers.
I agree, that safety should be #1, but those adapters can be a pain. Sometimes they fall half way out and I can picture a little kid sticking his finger in there.
In addition, you should check and see whether you do in fact have a ground wire that may just be connected to the metal junction boxes. You probably have just 2-wire cable connecting all your outlets, but there was a period where an undersized ground wire was included in the cable and was simply twisted to the other ground wires and tied to the box. Another variation was that the undersized ground wire was wrapped around the outside of the cable sheath and the cable was clamped to the box which would still nake a ground connection to the box. In this case, it may not be readily apparent that there is in fact a ground wire connected to anythig.
A quick way to see if there may be a ground would be to take the cover plate off a duplex outlet, and use a neon light tester between the hot side of the duplex and the metal box. If the tester lights, then you probably have a ground wire. If this is the case, then write back here for more instructions about what to do to actually hook up a ground to a 3-prong duplex outlet.
But, you probably have no ground wire at all, and will need to either add GFCI outlets like volts500 said, or else start fishing new cables.
My house was the same way, but I found that the outlets had a ground wire connected to the box, but not the outlet. I just pigtailed a longer wire to the ground wire and put in new 3 prong outlets.
volts500 is on the money. I also beleive (but am not completely sure if this is actually in the NEC) you are supposed to label all of the ungrounded-but-gfci 3-prong outlets with a sticker saying "NO GROUND" or similar. If I remember from last time I did a gfci, the box even included a half dozen such little stickers. Or maybe that was just the "GFCI" stickers I'm thinking of... hmmm.
I was planning on pulling 1 of the outlets this evening and checking to see what I had to work with. I only bought the house about a year ago and I'm unfamiliar with the complete history of the outlets (ie I don't know their age). I do know the house was build in '54 (in RI) (and assume the outlets are original) and the 2 prong outlets are the polarized ones (one prong is bigger than the other). I'm told this this COULD mean there is a chance of a ground being there.
My mistake Kevin, you are correct. The "NO GROUND" stickers and the instructions on how to wire it correctly come in the box along with the GFCI receptacle. Thanks.
Andy writes: Another solution, which will work but not meet code, is to get some of those 6 outlet taps which plug directly into the dual receptacle, and clip off the external ground plug so they can plug in. This will not require you to go into the outlet, and can be removed if you decide to sell the place. It does NOT provide a ground, and is therefore no safer than the two prong outlets, but it will work without permanent rewiring, and is very very easy to do. Many of these 6 prong outlets have a center screw that fastens into the dual outlet and keeps it from pulling out or falling off.
As I say, it doesn't meet code and provides no safety, but it works exactly like the adapter, only less likely to pull out.
No risks. Im sure it will violate your code though and when you sell the house they will request you install two pronged plugs or actually ground the third.
in an old house I would say its quite complicated. I'd rather sell my house than try it. Which is what I did...
After doing more research online it seems there's a chance of there being a ground even though there's still a 2 prong outlet (I guess this was sometimes the case in the 50's). I'm going to buy a tester and determine if this is in fact the case. If this is not the case, I think I'll trade off and install a GFCI outlet on the first outlet in the circuit then change the others (in said circuit) with three prong outlets. Still none would be grounded, but it would still be to code (or that's the impression I get). Being a first time home buyer, I'm trying to save where I can and learn as I go. For things like electrical, before trying to "experiment" I like to get an idea of what's involved and determine from there.
Nobodies mentioned a major problem that can occur in older houses.
That's the use of cloth covered rubber insulated wire. My house was built in the early 50s too and the wiring is all this awful rubber insulation with a woven cloth covering. Hard drawn, solder tinned. The problem is that the wire's been exposed to air for the last 50 years and the rubber is just absolutely brittle. If you just think of pulling an outlet to change it, the insulation cracks and falls off.
Well, OK, its not quite that bad but you get the drift and you get an idea of what you might be in for.
The wire is usually just fine until you move it, at which time the insulation flakes off. I've managed to replace most of the wire in the house but on the stuff I havent yet replaced, I shudder if I have to open up an outlet box.
So be real careful when working with that old wire.
I've tested the outlet with a circuit tester and it appears they are not grounded. To further the investigation I've pulled out the outlet (after shutting power) and pulled the outlet out a bit. There are only
4 wires coming in, 2 white and two black (both black wires on one side of the outlet, and both white on the other). The wires seem in good shape (pliable and rubber sheathing was in good shape and not cracky). I checked down in the basement and the wiring to the older plugs looked like the texture of a gaarden hose and was called Citex. My questions are:
1.) If I were to hire electrician APPROXIMATELY what could I expect to spend to get say 4-5 outlets converted (in the room right above the fuse box). The fuse box is only a few years old and properly grounded for the recently rewired kitchen/bath and newly finished basement. This is in the north east (RI).
2.) If the cost in question 1 is too high, I may use a GFCI outlet as the first in the series on the circuit and redo all the others with standard 3 prong (I'm told this is ok code).
3.) Worst case... Is it still possible to buy 2 prong outlets (this all started with wanting to replace the old panted over ones).
Not necessarily. You're supposed to attach the pigtail wire, or the little metal tab with the notch, of the adaptor to the center screw of the outlet.. In many most or all cases -- not sure which, but definitely sometimes -- , that screw will be grounded, and when you take out the screw, then screw it back in with the little metal fork underneath it, the adaptor is I believe as good as a 3 prong outlet.
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Is there a ground to the outlets that got replaced already? Or are maybe the boxes grounded, either through armored cable or actual ground wire romex? Only way for sure is to disable a circuit, pull an outlet out, and see if there is any bare copper in there. For the outlets that have already been switched, one of those ten-buck testers will do it. In this 1960 house, half the outlets were grounded, and half 2-hole. Lucky for me, there was grounded romex to all the boxes, so all I had to do was switch 14 outlets.
This would be indicative if you had romex, but I don't think you do. Was there Romex in the 50's??
But if you have BX, wires through a spiral metal sheath, your boxes may well be grounded. If it is metal.
Did they have plastic boxes inthe 50's? I don't think so. So your box is metal, but make sure..
You have to check again.
If the box is grounded, the outlet is iiuc guaranteed to be grounded when it is screwed to the box -- but not when you disconnect the outlet to look behind it.
I hope you got a VOM, a volt-ohm meter, or a multimeter, which is also a volt-ohm meter with different words on the package.
Much more useful in general than other testers. Don't buy the cheapest one RS has if it uses a moving needle, but get a cheap digital one. There are times when that is not as good, but they will be rare. (If you have to, later you can get a wiggy?, or a meter with a needle.)
Set your meter to 120 volts AC or higher (200 is a common value on the AC voltage scale.) Stick one probe in one of the slots in the outlet and touch the other probe to that metal screw between the two halves of the outlet (or if the outlet is not screwed to the metal box, touch the other probe to the metal box.)
You have two slots, one that is hot and one that is neutral, and this test should show either no voltage with either slot, or no voltage with one slot and some voltage with the other.
If it shows no voltage between either slot and the metal box, the box is not grounded. (this test has to be done with the power on, (to an outlet that works (as I assume all yours do.))
If it does show voltage between one slot, probably the wider one, and the box (or the screw in the middle of the outlet) it will probalby show 117 volts, or 110, or 120. In that case the box is grounded, and the outlet will be when you screw it back in place (although check again after it is in place.)
If it shows something less than 110, post back here for more info.
GFCI outlets and circuit breakers trip if the ground is no good. That means you have to have a good ground to begin with. No one here has discussed, that I have read, using GFCIs with 2 wires in BX or metal conduit. How would that work, guys?
I think so. If not maybe you could buy 3 prong and fil the ground hole with epoxy. That would make the point that there is no ground, although I don't know anything about Code in this matter.
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