110v line to 220v line?

[WConner]

A son has a garage that is about 25 ft. from his house. Previous owner ran a direct burial 2-12 w/ground wire to it. It is a 20a 110v circuit. I am wondering about changing it to 220v by using the ground wire as the neutral, white wire to one side of the breaker box, black wire to other then putting down a new ground rod out from the garage and running a new ground wire from it for ground in the garage making 220v and 110v available so he can do some modest shop work??

Thanks for any help,

Walt Conner

[hallerb]

Wire is so cheap why not do it right?

use a 10 gauge wire for less voltage drops.

tools like a circiular saw are a BIG current draw and common in the home shop

[hallerb]

Wire is so cheap why not do it right?

use a 10 gauge wire for less voltage drops.

tools like a circiular saw are a BIG current draw and common in the home shop

[AZ Nomad]

You'll never get such a kluge to pass inspection and if the place burns down you'll never collect insurance and may face criminal charges.

I'd recomend spending the 40 bucks for wire and paying a kid the 4 hours labor to dig the trench to burry a new wire.

[Bob]

My definition of "modest shop work", is a few power tools for home projects. Even at that, you're still probably going to be tripping a 20 amp breaker. If you need several pieces of 230volt equipment, then do it right.

[mm]

If you keep it at 110, he'll be even more modest!

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also.

[WConner]

"You'll never get such a kluge to pass inspection and if the place burns down you'll never collect insurance and may face criminal charges."

Mind explaining your rationalization? Might want to re-read my post.

Walt Conner

[Rusht Limpalless]

[Toller]

Like everyone else, I would advise you to not be so cheap and do it properly; not to mention legally. But, if you put all the 120v stuff on GFCI outlets, I can't see it is particularly dangerous. The GFCI would prevent ground loops; so the major problem would be that the neutral is a potential shock hazzard, but I have legal (well in 1982 when the were installed) "uninsulated neutrals" and they haven't caused any problems. But of course, my cables say "uninsulated neutral" all over them, so no one working on them would be surprised; yours wouldn't.

[carp3dny]

I would recommend running the new wire for two reasons

-Larger Gauge will keep voltage steadier and less likely to heat up and cause more problems while running alot of tools

-Saftey first... Uninsulated neutral is just one step away from an uncomfortable experience with AC current. Its worth the extra cost and effort in the long run...!

[e-mail]

[buffalobill]

not permitted. after you call the local where is my underground utility company to mark stuff, think about trenching and include some water, sewer for a sink, phone, internet, cable. maybe upgrade to that subpanel you want. see wiring faq at:

[Joseph Meehan]

Well for a start, I don't believe that an un-insulated neutral is allowed. I am not sure about your grounding idea either. I don't think it meets code.

I have to agree with those who are suggesting to do it right. The added cost would be well worth it to me.

[Bob]

You forgot zoned heat piping and an underground tunnel so he never has to go outside. LOL

[WConner]

"I am not sure about your grounding idea either. "

I think if you check your house wiring, you will find it is grounded this way, if you have a house built within the last 30 years or so at least.

"You forgot zoned heat piping and an underground tunnel so he never has to go outside. LOL"

ditto

Most likely the existing wire will be used for lighting circuit and a new line run. For those talking about how "cheap wire is" have you priced 10-3 w/ground direct burial wire lately? It will take a season or two to re-establish a nice lawn over the trench also.

Now for the "black tape, etc" comment, do you run two black wires to/from your wall switches? Since you break the black, this is what you should do, right? Better check to see all of yours are that way.

I wasn't very clear, the thought was to come from a new 220V breaker. The problem is the neutral would not have individual insulation, but would be insulated within the bundle, which in the case of the neutral, shouldn't make that much difference.

Thanks,

Walt Conner

[Doug Miller]

Multiple violations of the National Electrical Code here. Code does not permit the use of an uninsulated neutral. The separate ground wire doesn't meet Code either, as it fails the requirement that all conductors on a given circuit must be in the same cable or conduit. Do it right: run a new, proper 220V circuit using 10-3 WG direct-burial cable.

[Joseph Meehan]

This is enough to indicate you should not be attempting this work. Your plan does not meet code. Code is there for a good reason. Neutral is a current carrying line NOT a ground. Oh sure you may say, it is connected to the ground so it is ground, but NO. That is a common comment from someone who does not understand that there is a good reason for every part of the code. If the connection to the ground should become separated, that :neutral may well be carrying 120V.

Please for your own good, follow the good advice you have been given and do the job right. In fact I suggest it would be a lot safer if you would chose to hire a professional to do it for you. Note all those who have responded to your suggestions and how many have found fault with your ideas.

Look over the usual responses and you will find that most of the time we agree with good save ideas. That should tell you that your plan is not good and safe.

[WConner]

"This is enough to indicate you should not be attempting this work. Your plan does not meet code."

While I agree that with the majority of the responses, some of you are a little over board. Ever hear of Tube and Knob wiring? Have any idea how many of these systems are still in use? I have completely wired 3 new houses and rewired 3 old houses, one with ball and tube. Code is fine and is there for some reason but some of it is overkill.

[Joseph Meehan]

Yes, It was a very good system in its time, but in the '70's I rewired my home to eliminate all active K&T wiring still in service.

Kill is the term. It is clear you don't respect the possible implications from the point of danger. Frankly I believe the attitude I perceive if foolhardy. I have seen many people who believe code is overkill and insist on doing something really dangerous. They can't understand how it can dangerous to them, because they just don't understand the problem, so they want to ignore the code. Please for your own sake and the sake of others who may be effected, follow the code, even if you can't see any reason for doing so.

Perhaps you will consider that not meeting code, is a good way of causing problems on down the line. Insurance and liability issues.

[AZ Nomad]

and have you any idea how many burned to the ground?

[Stormin Mormon]

With two hots and one neutral, you'd be possible to overheat the neutral in a big way.

Probably the original wire wasn't a clad ground, so it's not totally sure to be clean and not corroded thrugh.

Sounds like more trouble than it's worth. I'd suggest like the other say, to run a new wire. I can't remember if it's UF, or what they call it. But there is wire th at is designed to be burried. I like the other fellow's suggestio to go with 10 gage. Greater capacity, lower line loss.