What stupid labor rules are you referring to? Those rules are simply a contract to deliver labor to management in a specific way. Instead of management telling you what to do and how to do it and you having no say other than to quit if you don't like it, labor and management negotiates the rules by which the work gets done.
It's like delivering any other service - you just don't like the fact that these workers have rights that you don't have. Are you envious or jealous? why not admit it instead of calling these workers names because you can't handle it?
I simply cut 'n' pasted what you and Oscar said and pasted them together, to emphasize that you aren't talking about the same people. Did you not notice the exact same wording, or do you not read what you write?
I DO think it is ridiculous to require a union electrician to plug in equipment, though.
I dunno if I'd make claims to being French, Tom. I lived just across the border from Lorraine for a few years; crossing the border was like walking into a trash dump. They had huge amounts of common litter everywhere in the streets and on the sidewalks. The best one-word description I can give it would be "seedy" or "unkempt".
FYI - many of the local Germans spoke quite a bit of French, too - and they all used a French pronunciation for the town of Bitburg ("bit-bourgh" - which is why the GIs called it "bit-bush"). Just a few miles north, the Luxembourgers concocted a strange language out of it: Luxembourgish, which is just about half German and half old French.
Here's one: a wheel or gear puller. Try buying one in a Triangle retail business that isn't made in China. A non-Chinese anvil, or heavy vise. Want some more? Trot on down to a local computer store and try to buy a PC with an American-made motherboard. Even IBM's are made in China... Same deal for a VCR or TV set. (Probably DVD players, too...)
This strongly reminds me of my commute 26-28 years ago when I taught in Durham County and occupied an old farmhouse in Chatham County. Crossing the county line the *pavement* disappeared and my route led past a half-dozen informal trash dumps along the rutted washboard dirt and gravel road. "Seedy" summed it up.
Depends on where you are plugging stuff into and what else is plugged into that circuit?
I work in photography and when I go up to NYC to photograph a dancer in a Broadway show (as I did last summer), I can't just plug into any old wall outlet. I don't know what the outlet is rated for, what else is plugged in there, etc. So I get a union guy to do it. He or she is responsible for knowing the condition of the electrical capacity in the building or theater. He comes and checks out my equipment, makes sure it isn't gonna blow up their electrical outlets or in any way keep them from putting on a show. He knows if the outlet is live and if not, how to turn it on. He knowns if it is switched off for a reason - it needs to be repaired or perhaps other things are plugged into it and need to be switched on and off for the show.
There are all sorts of pratical reasons why you need a union electrician to do that work - would you want to plug in some cheap-assed made in China electrical device and blow out an entire electrical panel and keep a Broadway show from starting on time?
I know also that when my grandmother was n a nursing home, you couldn't plug in any electrical devices into the wall without first having them checked out by the custodial staff. You wouldn't want someone plugging in some crappy old non-grounded lamp and tripping the breakers and grandma's O2 generator goes out - would you?
It isn't management's fault when labor stages a slowdown or sabotages products. My cousin had a rattle in his American car that turned out to be a wrench left inside the door during production.
Exactly the kinds of things I was trying to get usenet to understand. Unfortunately, it seems he either can't or won't. I think he's actually just trolling.
Right - another one of those urban myths - a wrench in the door. Notice it isn't you that found the wrench. What brand of wrench was it anyway? Dingleberry - they don't use a regular wrench to build cars on an assembly line - they use air-powered tools. What are you gonna tell me now - that the union guys went out and bought boxes of Mac Tools to leave in the doors of cars?
Actually - it is management's fault when there is a strike or a work slowdown. That is usually because management wouldn't bargain fairly with the workers. If management stops treating workers like tools that can be worked hard until they break then be replaced with illegal immigrant workers, then workers won't need to strike!
You trying to get me to understand an urban myth and anti-labor bullshit? Better marshall your facts first moron! Or better yet, show me a wrench and an affidavit!
Right, it's always somebody else's fault. I'm beginning to detect a distinct theme in you dialogue. You're one pissed off, repressed demofag, aren't you"
Thanks for sharing with the group. You're the best laugh I've had all day!
You make some good points that I had not considered.
I've really got no dog in this fight. I think both of you are partly correct. I know full well that I would not enjoy the benefits that I have if it were not for the union organizers of yesteryear. I also know that the demands of some unions became excessive in the 60s and
70s, and that some unions at certain points in time were infested by the mob.
Mostly, I wanted to point out to the two of you that you were comparing apples and oranges. The people who started the unions are not the same people (or even the same quality of people) who run the unions today.
Like what? It's a false dichotomy. You don't need a *union* guy to do that -- you need a *qualified* guy to do that. The "union" guy may be *more* likely to have BS certification for all you know. You know, get passed along by the bureaucracy like in a public school?
It's a similar thing for doctors and lawyers. I'm not against their certification, I'm against the monopoly in deciding who gets to practice medicine or law at all.
Reputation. A medical standards group that racks up a lot of bozos with malpractice suits is dead in the water. Right now, the system is not only biased, there's not much feedback.
There's no shortage of certification systems in the private market. A bachelors degree in engineering from an *accredited* university is also a form accredation. Microsoft does a lot too, as does the Red Cross for lifeguards.
Hey, I used to be a lifeguard!
And you don't always need a formal education. Dweezil did not need a *union* electrician, he just needed an electrician. How he fobbed that off is beyond me, especially with most localities requiring electricians to be licensed to boot. Disingenuous...
You raise an interesting point. The problem is that those certifications and degrees cost money out front before you even get a job that might not be there when you graduate.
One of the things that a union has done in the past is to have a system for new workers to come into a system as a helper or apprentice and work and learn at the same time, until they passed some sort of certification. And they didn't have to take out loans or pay someone to teach them - they learned on the job while they were getting paid. And while they were learning, they had job protection. What could possibly be wrong with that?
One way to earn that certification or license is to work with a qualified person for a certain period of time and then pass a test. What problem could you possibly have with that? I mean - a person who has a license and is certified and properly trained will probably wire your house better than a guy who never took a class, never worked alongside a certified electrician, never apprenticed, etc.
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