People that are Trane washed usually stay that way.
Well, I know of many Bristol compressors that are functioning just fine...
How many install or service issues caused the malfunction????
Never heard of companies turning in warranty claims on parts that are *not* faulty????????
Big deal... how many of them installs were top notch with no other issues??? There must have been other issues... as the installing company isn't there to clean up their mess. That tells me that the equipment is more than likely slapped in as fast as possible. That equals install issues that are a prime cause of failures! You can't argue against FACTS and that's the facts, plain and simple.
FWIW Trane has lost some of its edge but that climate tuff = compressor was pretty damn good. I am a fan of Trane myself and would = go with Rheem second, YMMV. Tecumseh probably had an edge on Bristol, = but I don't know if that is still true. York did not have much of a = presence in my area, so can't pass judgment on them.
You have a point. Maybe sorry installs on a lot of them. You still failed to answer the question about your experience. What units have done well for you and which ones have not. From what you are saying you've never had trouble out of any namebrand. If all this equipment is so good for you what do you do all day? Do you not see some namebrands that out perform others. All units are not created equally. Well maybe in your part of the country they are.
Also as far as my 3 Frasier Johnson systems. All 3 gave trouble. You can sneer all you want but that's 3 out of 3 systems that gave trouble and there were no installation issues. They were done by the book and are still running as far as I know but they all went down with factory leaks on the coils and one compressor went down. That's not a very good track record. These houses were all done within 6 months to a year of each other. That is fact. What is you said "can't argue against facts plain and simple". Let me say those are not the only Frasier Johnson systems we put in but those were the 3 that made us drop that line of equipment.
Name brand has a lot less to do with it than does the installer and the supplier. In my experience, I have had all kinds of calls for all kinds of brands and 90% of the time, the problem is because of a screwed up install from the lowest bidder cutting corners. The systems that I have installed, and the ones that have been installed by legitmate, competent, insured, professionally trained HVAC technicians, rarely if ever have any problems. The only calls I get on those are for regular service.
No all units are not created equally, its just that some are created more equal than others.
Frasier Johnson??? never heard of them....who are they made by?? FWIW, If I couldn't get Rheem any longer, the next best in my mind would be whatever supplier has the best support and parts inventory on the shelf, and treats me right. It doesn't matter what the brand of equipment, if you can't get parts and support for it its gonna be garbage.
Frasier Johnson is made by York (or whoever makes York). I agree with the support comment to a point. Some equipment just gives trouble due to poor craftmanship or bugs that need to be worked out. We used to sell alot or Ducane 10 SEER equipment and seldom had any trouble with those units. Then they made the switch to 13 SEER equipment and we started having a lot of trouble with reversing valves sticking, had a few factory leaks, and a couple of compressors go down. Now up until that point they were one the most reliable brands we have ever handled. So what I'm saying I guess is that sometimes certain brands have certain problems that mostly pertain to them and is not a product of bad installations. That is what happened with the FJ brand we used for a year or so. It's been around 4 years since we used that equipment and it cost us a lot of money in warranty work because most everything we had to do was within the first year and at the time FJ would not give a labor allowance of any kind (not sure if they do now). So I guess it just left a bad taste in my mouth. FJ may be the best thing since sliced bread now but the supplier I used to purchase that equipment fron is a real good friend of mine and he's told me that it just didn't perform well for them. But then I guess it can still all come back to how it was installed. Now he is selling Amana/ Goodman and he says his warranty claims have been cut more than in half and he's selling to the same installers as he was before he switched brands of equipment.
Now on the other hand I've talked to guys who say they will never sell Rheem/Ruud again because of leaky coils or other problems they have had but, I've had very few problems out of the Rheems I've installed and really like the equipment. So who knows? Maybe it's a regional thing. Maybe it's because I talk dirty to my Rheem equipment and failed to do so to our Frasier Johnson equipment. Maybe it's like cars, some people think Fords are junk and some people think Chevys are junk. I don't know but I do know that FJ did not do well for us and we have changed more Bristol compressors than any other name brand compressor. Now according to someone who posted earlier my experience is pretty useless, and maybe so to others, but it's all I have to go on when making decisions concerning my business or anything else for that matter. Do you sell anything other than Rheem? Rodney
"Rod" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... On Jun 12, 9:19 pm, "Noon-Air" wrote:
Frasier Johnson is made by York (or whoever makes York). I agree with the support comment to a point. Some equipment just gives trouble due to poor craftmanship or bugs that need to be worked out. We used to sell alot or Ducane 10 SEER equipment and seldom had any trouble with those units. Then they made the switch to 13 SEER equipment and we started having a lot of trouble with reversing valves sticking, had a few factory leaks, and a couple of compressors go down. Now up until that point they were one the most reliable brands we have ever handled. So what I'm saying I guess is that sometimes certain brands have certain problems that mostly pertain to them and is not a product of bad installations. That is what happened with the FJ brand we used for a year or so. It's been around 4 years since we used that equipment and it cost us a lot of money in warranty work because most everything we had to do was within the first year and at the time FJ would not give a labor allowance of any kind (not sure if they do now). So I guess it just left a bad taste in my mouth. FJ may be the best thing since sliced bread now but the supplier I used to purchase that equipment fron is a real good friend of mine and he's told me that it just didn't perform well for them. But then I guess it can still all come back to how it was installed. Now he is selling Amana/ Goodman and he says his warranty claims have been cut more than in half and he's selling to the same installers as he was before he switched brands of equipment.
Now on the other hand I've talked to guys who say they will never sell Rheem/Ruud again because of leaky coils or other problems they have had but, I've had very few problems out of the Rheems I've installed and really like the equipment. So who knows? Maybe it's a regional thing. Maybe it's because I talk dirty to my Rheem equipment and failed to do so to our Frasier Johnson equipment. Maybe it's like cars, some people think Fords are junk and some people think Chevys are junk. I don't know but I do know that FJ did not do well for us and we have changed more Bristol compressors than any other name brand compressor. Now according to someone who posted earlier my experience is pretty useless, and maybe so to others, but it's all I have to go on when making decisions concerning my business or anything else for that matter. Do you sell anything other than Rheem? Rodney
Nope... been a Rheem dealer for going on 12 years now. FWIW, I did 13+ seer almost exclusively long before it was fashionable. In all that time I have only had 3 warranty issues..... a motor burnt up after the first month, a flaky door switch on a gas furnace, and an evap coil that leaked 6 months after it was installed. My supplier for the most part has been great, except for a couple of years when they had a change in personnel, but they got that fixed now.
As I said before we have also had great service out of Rheem but the supplier was just bought out by another big supplier (actually home depot supply), and their customer service has hit an all time low. We have considered going to Ruud equipment because they seem to run a tighter ship than HD Supply. I'm going to give them a little more time to get their stuff together before I switch. They had to merge 2 stores into one during the merger and hopefully things will get better with a little more time. Rodney
As I said before we have also had great service out of Rheem but the supplier was just bought out by another big supplier (actually home depot supply), and their customer service has hit an all time low. We have considered going to Ruud equipment because they seem to run a tighter ship than HD Supply. I'm going to give them a little more time to get their stuff together before I switch. They had to merge 2 stores into one during the merger and hopefully things will get better with a little more time. Rodney
I feel your pain.... I have had the same problems with the what is now HD Supply here. They finally got rid of the dead weight and its working a lot better.
My experience is that most people don't understand HVAC to the extent they should before running their mouth. Most of the time it leads to an insertion of a foot.
Never said that... Trane isn't everything you think it might be. There are other brands that will perform just as well, if they are properly sized, installed and set-up to run with-in the manufacture's specifications. Don't forget about regular maintenence.
I do have competitors (term used lightly)... they leave me all kinds of messes to straighten out!
Equipment for the most part is created pretty equally, if you compare apples to apples. Don't take the low end of one and compare it to the others top end.
So I take it that *you* sized, installed and set-up the equipment??? Otherwise, you really can't state "there were no installation issues".
99% of equipment failures are directly related to a sizing, installation, set-up and *lack of* regular maintenence. The other 1% is due to manufacture's defects... I don't mean the manufacture of the HVAC equipment (can be), but the manufacture of the *parts* being installed into the equipment.
Every brand has had a problem child... most of the time it's due to a faulty part. Which for the most part is out of their control. Name a brand and you can name a defect. Period... Rheem drum, Lennox pulse, ICP/GMC/Trane clamshell HX, etc, etc... you never know when your time is coming.
So in saying that, just because you have a good track record this year... look out, cause next year may be different. Why, cause equipment lines change and so do the internal components. Honeywell has manufactured great GV's, till they had a cold solder joint on the SV series. Was this the equipment manufacure's fault? (not a chance) Just how many brands had the SV system? (many)
As Steve stated, a brand is only as good as the installer. The installer (or servicer) is only as good as his/her parts warehouse. If you don't have the parts (or can get them quickly - as in case of an emergency) the end result is failure to provide your client with top quality service.
[snip] So does that few percent make a world of difference? Is it like comparing a lexus to a toyota? [snip]
How to break this to you -- a Lexus IS a Toyota. -- Comes straight out of Toyota City in Japan. Toyota puts "Lexus" nameplates on instead of Toyota when the car is shipped to certain other countries like the U.S., Thailand, etc. that also produce Toyotas. It's gradually spread around the world and is a victory of marketing over substance.
Example -- See the Toyota Soarer, at
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and read the description -- "In 1991, Toyota released the newly designed 30 series Toyota Soarer, . . . It has been sold as the Lexus SC 300 & 400 series outside of Japan . . .. The car shares the same chassis as the MKIV 1993-1998 model Toyota Supra. Both cars suspension, brakes, drivetrains, and engine parts are interchangeable."
Textbook example of marketing -- Toyota changing the name of some of its models to "Lexus" and jacking up the price. That's a tactic they learned from BMW, which also raised its prices to create an aura of quality and a boost in sales.
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