Should I be charged for this or not?

[Taxlover]

My furnace isn't working and I have a service call in. It is a Lennox G32V, installed in 2003.

I had it "maintained" last month. At that time I asked them to be sure the drain was clean, as it failed because of a clogged drain in 2004. He assured me that was part of the maintenance.

This morning it is gurgling, the same as it did when the drain was clogged in 2004. Then it shuts off, just as in 2004.

My belief is that it couldn't have been cleaned properly last month, so I shouldn't be charged for this. I expect they will disagree.

Whatcha think?

(back in 2004 he showed me how to clear it, but it was complicated and I don't remember how...)

[The Freon Cowboy]

where i come from , cleaning the drains is part of the service on a "tune and clean " for a 90 plus , did he say he was gonna charge, or are you just gathering ammuniton , to shoot him down with , if he intends to?

too bad you didnt pay attention back in 2004 ,

bottom line , if its somehitng they missed during the "cleaning" then i'd think they should warranty it .

"Taxlover" wrote:

[HVAC Guy]

The Fre> did he say he was gonna charge, or are you just gathering ammuniton,

What's wrong with gathering ammunition to shoot down any attempt to bill for something that was claimed to have been done a month ago?

Or do you believe that the tech should bill the HO *again* for something he claimed to do a month ago?

Why? So that the HO can learn to do it himself, and be less reliant on criminal HVAC tech's?

What probably happened is that the drain wasn't cleaned a month ago (even though it was charged for).

What probably WILL happen is that the tech (maybe a different guy) will say that the drain is clogged. The HO will then say "But I paid to have it cleared a month ago by a buddy of yours", then the tech will go back to the furnace and come back and tell the HO that he needs a new $150 sensor, with a labor charge of $75.

And by the way, my furnaces don't have drains that need cleaning.

My AC drain tubes never get clogged.

I guess the HVAC industry hasn't figured out how to design a drain tube that doesn't get clogged. Why should I trust their furnace designs if they can't even get that right?

[Taxlover]

He is due here "between 11am and 4pm". Just gathering ammunition; I don't want to argue about it is my claim is unfounded.

This time I am going to take pictures... I think it is something they should do for free, but if it were nighttime and -10 instead of sunny and 40 getting it done quickly would be important!

[The Freon Cowboy]

[HVAC Guy]

Oh ya?

Where was this "help"?

I didn't see any.

[Zyp]

Taxlover;

Clogged drains for air conditioning come from failing to replace air filters often [easily done by the homeowner.] Why? Because if the air filters are not replaced often, dirt collects on the evaporator coil. The air conditioning washes that dirt down through the drain. The organic nature of dirt, plus water causes sludge.

Clogged drains on the heating side of a condensing furnace on the other hand don't happend often unless they were joined with the air conditioning. [The resulting condensate from a high efficiency furnace comes from the inside of the secondary coil(s) not exposed to dirt from the air side.] But because of the higher temperatures, darkness and organic materials from the air conditioning side, can cause high build ups of mold and fungus which clogges drains.

If you've called this HVAC company in the past to do work for you, it is likely he will consider it a call back no matter what's found. If this is your 'first trip' with them, they may not. [It depends on what is found.] If you had a "maintenance agreement" with them, it is likely covered and there won't be any extra's.

*HVAC Gay Guy* is an idiot. He - she is apparently uninformed. Likes to will-nilly accuse without any valid information. I generally don't like to get into a [battle of wits] with an unarmed person. And they don't come any less armed than HVAC Gay Guy. In fact I'd go as far as to say HVAC Gay Guy is SCUM. He - she just has the acronyms wrong.

[Taxlover]

It is joined to the AC, but the filter was changed last month with a 12 month pleated filter, at the same time it was cleaned. So it must not have been cleaned; is that a fair presumption?

They installed the system in 2003 and have been doing yearly maintenance since. I have an extended warranty, but apparently it doesn't cover something like this.

[Taxlover]

The service man found the inducer was full of water, for absolutely no reason. Everything was clean, and water he poured down the drain simply drained out. He spent an hour here without finding anything wrong. He charged me $140.

My belief is that the water did not pool there without an obstruction. And the obstruction could only be a result of improper maintenance last month. Am I off base here? I have a call into them to discuss this; but feel inclined to stop payment on the payment.

[Taxlover]

He has been gone for 30 minutes. The inducer is full of water again, and there is water all over the floor! Of course, since he didn't fix anything (since he found nothing wrong), it is perfectly logical that it should reoccur immediately.

Seems not to have been money well spent.

[HVAC Guy]

Taxlover wrote:

Ok, so I was wrong about how much you got reamed for. But it wasn't far off.

The inducer?

WTF is an "inducer" ?

Was he talking about the *draft inducer* ???

You're telling me that "modern" furnaces have secondary heat exchangers that can get filled up with water?

What a load of shit. Thanks but no thanks - I'll keep operating my

31-year-old 78% AFUE. I'm sure that my "inducer" won't get clogged full of water (LOL).

The obstruction is caused because Lennox designed the secondary heat exchanger to not drain properly so that it would rust faster and then you will need to replace the furnace in 7 years. But they goofed and their design gets plugged to fast resulting in too many service calls, which Lennox won't pay for.

[Taxlover]

They sent the same guy out. He determined the drain line was full of crud and wouldn't take water. He blew it out with compressed nitrogen and it seems to be fine. I am not sure why he didn't find this problem on the first visit; but better late than never. The service manage told me not to worry about the first charge; I can't wait to find out what that means.

Question... I am not sure what the drain goes to; if it is actually going to a sewer, or just into the foundation. There is a bathroom on the other side of the wall that the furnace is against; so it is probably a sewer, but the ground is well drained, so that would work also. What would you expect? Would it make sense to put some drain cleaner into it? The house is 25 years old, so the drain must be also.

[Bubba]

Christ dude! Your freaking little black trap on the Lennox G32V is clogged. It takes about 2 minutes to clean out. Unscrew the white plug out of the one side or undo/cut the 1/2 cpvc drain line from the other side. You can also take the clamp and rubber boot off the bottom. Dump the water, flush it and put it back together. Get your money back and find another company with some better competence. Bubba

[The Freon Cowboy]

not gonna respond to this one, hvac gay might get upset ;-)

"Taxlover" wrote:

[Zyp]

I wouldn't use any drain cleaner. You run the risk of the odor getting into the system and your house.

Look under the lav in the bathroom [opposite the heater] and see if there's a flexible black [or whatever] hose attached just before the trap. If there is, that's likely the condensate drain connection.

I'd expect, since you have a 'maintenance agreement' with them, there shouldn't be any charges for clearing a drain that's supposed to be cleared during maintenance.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.