Problems with air conditioners, etc

[wyredog]

Thanks for the info!

I think the cap is the cheapest thing that may be the likely fix. See what you think:

A few days ago I cam home to a silent outside unit (no fan no compressor nothing). Found that the 30A breaker was thrown. Turned it back on and it flipped off after a couple seconds. Later I tried it again jsut because I was hot hand had nothing else to think about. This time it worked...the heat pump turned on and ran as if nothing were wrong.

So I replaced the breaker hoping it was just to weak. Same scenario with it. The AC will run ..on ...off on...off through several cooling cycles then one time it will throw the breaker and that's all she wrote until I go into the crawl space and turn the breaker on again.

Other relavent factors: The unit is only 3 years old, Arco Air made by Carrier. And it has been record heat here since just before this began......causing the unit to run very frequently

[Ignoramus16532]

Do you have a wife or anyone else who can turn on the breaker from inside while you are outside, listening? Does it pop instantly or after some little time? Does the A/C make a humming noise during that time?

i

The breaker has to match the A/C, you know.

I dunno, it possibly is not the capacitor. If you have a multimeter (as you should) with a capacitance, tester, you can test it (it could be bad at 220VAC even if tests OK by the tester, but still it is good to test).

Do not assume too much too soon. Could be that something makes the motor run harder than it should, for example. Some good investigation and careful writing down of the facts could help.

You may need to "hire a pro", eventually, but you would run less of a chance of being taken to cleaners if you form a good picture of what is going on. Or maybe you can just fix it.

i

[Noon-Air]

I hate working on stuff *after* some fool (the home owner) has screwed with it..... thats even worse(and a lot more expensive) that fixing jackleg screw-ups. A breaker that trips is NOT a good thing... a breaker is a SAFETY DEVICE...if it trips, there is a reason. Call a competent tech to find out WHY the breaker tripped, and get it repaired correctly.

[Stormin Mormon]

Pretty much turn off the power. It's my experience that I've shorted a bunch of caps, and never had one come up "hot".

[wyredog]

The outside unit makes a snap or click noise and then the breaker is thrown..no humming as if the compressor is tryiing to start at all.

Good of you to mention....but yes I replaced the 30A with a new 30A

Do you know what would make the compressor harder starting than it should be but still it runs okay when started?

I think I have a pretty good picture of what is happening ..just lack the technical knowledge to isolate the problem...II'm a mechanical designer but know little to nothing about electrical..trying to deduce this from a mechanical standpoint but am kind of backed into an electrical "corner".

[Mo Hoaner]

Which Group? Ya cross posted to three of them. You may remove alt.hvac from your list.

Why are you replacing a capacitor on your heat pump? As a preventative maintenance measure? Or is the heat pump not working so you thought you'd take a crap shoot (completely blindly) Start by replacing the thermostat, as most problems are related to bad thermostats.

To answer your other question, yes, certain capacitors can retain a charge that can easily be lethal, and/or remove parts of your body upon contact. Sometimes getting close enough will do the trick.

As far as "What should I do/not do as I remove the capacitor" goes, the key words are "do not". You do not know what you are doing. You do not know what to do. And you do not know why you are doing what you are thinking about doing.

So, the best answer based on the information you have provided is "do not".

Call a real tech, and the problem will be solved.

[wyredog]

" Professional " wanted to charge me $950 to replace the compressor (which is under warrranty) and dryer and cap. Schwew...ran the same stuff by antoher and got a 350 estimate...thought a cap and breaker were good simple places to start

[Stormin Mormon]

We'd like to know a few things like the model number. and the tonnage.

If your neighborhood has been having brownouts.

And if you've ever had your AC professionally serviced. Unit cleaned, freon levels checked, etc.

[Stormin Mormon]

As you will find out rapidly, there are a few folks here who are impolite. They will self identify rapidly.

Using your logic, I went to my doctor and asked for the cheapest Rx I could have. Figuring cause I was sick, I wanted to take the cheapest pills. I'd try the cheaper pills, and work up to the more expensive ones later. I'm up to about four dollars a bottle, and I'm still sick.

My neighbor had the same condition. He went into the doc and told him the symptoms. The doc did an examination, wrote the pills that he really needed, and he's just fine now. My neighbor says I may have craneo rectal invertitis.

Actuallly, since you write and ask for advice on changing caps instead of asking for help diagnosing, you may have CRI also. Incidentally, take two asprin. And, when the asprin take effect, replace your thermostat.

[Stormin Mormon]

Yes, I do.

Please post the tech specs requested.

[wyredog]

I get the feeling several on this site think I tossed a coin to see what I would start replacing: Here's some history:

A few days ago I cam home to a silent outside unit (no fan no compressor nothing). Found that the 30A breaker was thrown. Turned it back on and it flipped off after a couple seconds. Later I tried it again jsut because I was hot hand had nothing else to think about. This time it worked...the heat pump turned on and ran as if nothing were wrong.

So I replaced the breaker hoping it was just to weak. Same scenario with it. The AC will run ..on ...off on...off through several cooling cycles then one time it will throw the breaker and that's all she wrote until I go into the crawl space and turn the breaker on again.

Other relavent factors: The unit is only 3 years old, Arco Air made by Carrier. And it has been record heat here since just before this began......causing the unit to run very frequently

When the unit runs it runs great...just doesn't start every time....Curious...What leads you to suspect the thermostat...it appears to be functioning normally as does everything else...when it starts.....start....capacitor...am I really all that "shooting in the dark?"

[wyredog]

hhp436akc1

no brownouts..had the asshole who installed show up at my house without first returning my message and say "yup breaker switch is thrown...nothing else".

Soyou can see between that and the $950 estimat I am not real eager to try a third " professional"

[Ignoramus16532]

But what did the professional say, did he give you a coherent explanation of what he thought was wrong? Did he explain what problems cause what symptoms?

He may be right, maybe, or maybe he is not, it is good to know details.

i

[Ignoramus16532]

He said that his problem is related to a popping 220V breaker. Is a popping breaker caused by a bad thermostat?

But would he not be able to obtain good advice? That's why he is posting here, to understand how to handle capacitors.

It does not take an Einstein to understand what a capacitor is and how to discharge one that is going to be replaced. An ape can probably be taught how to discharge capacitors.

i

[wyredog]

Actually he suggested I replace the cicuit breaker which I did. Was professional and all...just his company quote book was really high.

He seemed to thing I would need a new compressor. Said I would also need to replace the dryer and capasitor in order to not void the warranty on the new compressor.

So I got to th> > > " Professional " wanted to charge me $950 to replace the compressor

[wyredog]

"It does not take an Einstein to understand what a capacitor is and how

to discharge one that is going to be replaced. An ape can probably be taught how to discharge capacitors"

Funny how the same types that would ridicule someone for asking a question about a device that could hold the potentail to kill...Will also ridicule anyone who is killed due to ignorance of the device. (caps)

Does inhaling to much freon make you grumpy and uncooperative...maybe someone should conduct a study.

[Ignoramus16532]

What did he say in response to question WHY (why was he suggesting what he was suggesting). That's what is important. What's his explanation.

Capacitors are cheap, really likely worth less than the value of time that you spent here discussing your question. But this intermittent situation does not seem like a capacitor problem.

Did you open up your compressor cover, disconnect, etc, did you try tracing where is electricity with your multimeter etc?

Do you have a schematic of your unit?

Get yourself a multimeter with a clamp ammeter. Try to be systematic, I do not see evidence of a systematic thought process/investigation yet.

I see some traces of same mentality "let's start replacing stuff" that we do not like about some paid "servicepersons". I think that your advantage here could be having time, persistence and a systematic approach. Try to use this advantage.

i

[Ignoramus16532]

Do not get sidetracked, you need to have your problem solved, not argue with unfriendly people late at night. Drop the hvac newsgroup from the list, if you do not get useful responses, and keep digging deeper and post to alt.home.repair and rec.crafts.metalworking.

You need to call tomorrow and ask the company for a manual, maybe they will give you one. I am not saying that you can fix any problem, but you should hope to come across some "troubleshooting checklist" for your model that you could apply.

i

[wyredog]

Okay...one more time: The professional DID a diagnosis, then gave me a quote for a new compressor, dryer, and capacitor.

I do not wish to pretend I know what a multi-meter would be telling me. That is why I had a professional come here. He gave me what seemed like a really high quote to replace a compressor, etc....($950 mostly labor)....as I said.

Now I can just shell out lots of money for a new compressor which doesn't make much sense to me because as I speak the compressor is cooling my home...Or I can replace a $40 cap first because the prof. who did the diagnosis said it would need to be replaced if he came to do the work anyway. Good God what is so hard for "Ma sees me in my PJ's" to understand about that!

He most likely made a living giving false info to people and ripping them off becaseu all he seems capable of is redicule to anyone who trys to tread on his "holy field of expertice"

[Ignoramus16532]

pjm, as much as you sound rather unpleasant, I have a feeling that you actually may know a thing or two about troubleshooting HVAC equipment. The key word here is "may".

Is there any chance at all that you could help us appreciate the wisdom and knowledge of your profession, by actually sharing some of it here, specifically what kinds of issues could cause observed problems (intermittent breaker popping at startup).

I mean, both great experts as well as ignorant assholes could say something like "dumbass, you need to talk to professionals". That's an easy thing to say in all circumstances.

So... How can we know that you are a knowledgeable person in your field? Can you share with us what is applicable to his case. I would then be the first to acknowledge the depths of your expertise. I am not kidding or posturing.

i