I have a new (Jan.) 4-ton Carrier 50YDV GT-PX geothermal heat pump
installed in my home. Water is supplied from a Constant Pressure 75
Pump by Fanklin with a 4 gallon (bladder?) it is connected to a 3/4 hp
pump in a 370 ft well.
The problem is that there is a build up of pressure causing
ruptures in the water line on the geothermal line. The plastic drain
valve of a Rusco filter has split twice. It was replaced with a brass
drain valve, the pressure then went on to split the solienoid. The
company that installed the unit is going to add in a pressure relief
and a hammer(something), and see if this solves the problem.
They haven't experienced this before and its the first time they
hooked up a geothermal system to a Constant Pressure drive, they
normally are used to working with the well tanks.
Has anyone seen this type of thing before? If so can you describe
what was going on so I can relay it to the installers? Will doing the
work on the geothermal side push the pressure to the water lines in the
house causing ruptures there?
Any help would be appreciated, the installers seem pretty good but
they are stumped on this one and are calling a few different places to
ask around about this problem.
It's no wonder geothermal systems get a bad rap. I guess the ounious
is on the installers to figure out but after a 4th attempt to correct
this if it happens again, I will have to exert some pressure to get the
system removed and a normal system installed and a refund of my money
because Im tired of mopping up the basement when lines rupture.
The thing I dont get is if you had that attitude why did you even
bother to click the link and read it, yet alone reply to it. I'm not
sure how you conduct your business in N. Ohio, but if you do it the
same way you will surely over time lose business once people get to
know you. I'm not sure what the whole tradesman vs homeowner attitude
is all about, if you fear I will be stealing your business or what, but
whatever would have been posted would have been relayed to the
tradesman so that they can talk about it and examine its merits.
You got it all wrong... when correctly designed and installed, GEO is a good
thing... but like everything else.... when installed by the lowest bidder,
all bets are off. Maybe your installers were not *competent*, licensed,
insured, professionally trained, HVAC technicians and you are subsidizing
It's not that they aren't competent, its something to do with the
Constant Pressure Pump, but they haven't had this case before and it
has left them scratching their heads trying to figure it out, while I
end up mopping up the basement. They defiantley weren't the lowest
bidders and their install was clean, but somethings just not right with
The installer will be stopping today to install the parts he had on
order. From reading up on things it sounds like water hammer altough I
have not heard the pipes make the noise. I have to talk to the
installer to find out if the solenoid is a slow closing one, or if it
slams shut. Things I have found that may make a difference are:
arrestor - not likely to help much
larger lines to slow down the speed in which water is travelling
a pressure tank to absorb the shock wave when the solenoid is closed
a slow closing solenoid if its not already on there.
My theory is that most ground water geothermal units use a well, and
the majority of those wells have the pressure tanks, elminating the
shockwave when the solenoid closes, with the constant pressure pump,
there is no where for the shockwave to go, so it finds its own way out.
I will follow up on this post at a later time incase anyone else has
the same problem.
Good point, and there the ones who designed and installed it.
I love it when Carrier, about the worse company in the world to deal with
with technical problems because they hire some of the stupidest people I've
ever had to deal with, comes to a job and cant fiquire it out.
I could tell you story upon story about this.
Besides, the guy from 'Carrier' was NOT from Carrier!! He was a rep from the
supply house who most likely had relatives that got him the job. Seen it too
many times, especially with RSC who probably is the supplier. Everyone up
here in the company is somehow related.
The local Carrier company put in a 1.2 million dollar hvac system in the
court house. It didn't work. Carrier came down (once again the suppliers
rep and not Carrier) and he was a licensed engineer. They said, 'well of
course this system won't work with the old controls, thats another $150,000
please." The judge actually told the comminsioners to pay up or go to jail!
But the Carrier people didn't show any shame in shamming our county! Whyd
didnt' they mention that it wasn't going to work with the controls?
So, ask them to send a REAL rep from Carrier and see if they can help.
I see you have few answers but what I don't understand
why any one would used solenoid in water system that
is use in head pressure control " if " one is use fort hat .
I guess the valve that suppose to be use, it is not cost effective
As for pump as much I know about it, it should have
surge tank pressure switch and check valve in suction line
but not solenoid valve! if one happen to be used
then it should be of hydronic type it should close very "s l o w l y"
other wise it will hammer.
Good luck from Dido
Just an update to the installed parts:
1 Large Sioux Chief HYDRA-RESTER (right before Taco)
1 Taco slow closing solenoid valve
1 Pressure reducer (I believe its set to 45 psi) (at the beginning of
the water line to the unit)
1 Pressure Expansion Tank (about 4-5 gallons) (right after pressure
Changed PVC lines to Copper Lines
Its only been a day so it will take a while to see if these work.
This is the clue, what causes hammering. Think about it. how would a system
all of a sudden create a hammering situation?
take a few pictures of the plumbing and valves, put them on the net and I
know someone will give you the answer.
Got to go back to work now make a living so I too can afford such an
expensive system as you have. ....
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