Geothermal Water Pressure Problem

[phadippides]

Greetings, I have a new (Jan.) 4-ton Carrier 50YDV GT-PX geothermal heat pump installed in my home. Water is supplied from a Constant Pressure 75 Pump by Fanklin with a 4 gallon (bladder?) it is connected to a 3/4 hp pump in a 370 ft well.

The problem is that there is a build up of pressure causing ruptures in the water line on the geothermal line. The plastic drain valve of a Rusco filter has split twice. It was replaced with a brass drain valve, the pressure then went on to split the solienoid. The company that installed the unit is going to add in a pressure relief and a hammer(something), and see if this solves the problem. They haven't experienced this before and its the first time they hooked up a geothermal system to a Constant Pressure drive, they normally are used to working with the well tanks.

Has anyone seen this type of thing before? If so can you describe what was going on so I can relay it to the installers? Will doing the work on the geothermal side push the pressure to the water lines in the house causing ruptures there?

Any help would be appreciated, the installers seem pretty good but they are stumped on this one and are calling a few different places to ask around about this problem.

Thanks

[phadippides]

I forgot to mention there was an 8gpm limiter right after the solenoid to control water flow, not sure if it makes a difference.

[geoman]

Yes, I know, but its going to cost you for the info.

Does a university give away its education for free? If they can be paid for it we should be too.

Let me know if your willing to pay for the answer

[ftwhd]

Answer his question and Ill pay you. Then afterwards make you you pay for your answers when you ask questions. Or you could just answer him and not be such a selfish pig.

[phadippides]

[geoman]

Nope, I will answer other trademen but not homeowners. Besides, if Universities can be 'selfish pigs' then so can I.

I KNOW the answer and I KNOW the cure.

Rich

[phadippides]

It's no wonder geothermal systems get a bad rap. I guess the ounious is on the installers to figure out but after a 4th attempt to correct this if it happens again, I will have to exert some pressure to get the system removed and a normal system installed and a refund of my money because Im tired of mopping up the basement when lines rupture.

The thing I dont get is if you had that attitude why did you even bother to click the link and read it, yet alone reply to it. I'm not sure how you conduct your business in N. Ohio, but if you do it the same way you will surely over time lose business once people get to know you. I'm not sure what the whole tradesman vs homeowner attitude is all about, if you fear I will be stealing your business or what, but whatever would have been posted would have been relayed to the tradesman so that they can talk about it and examine its merits.

geoman wrote:

[Noon-Air]

Dude, You got it all wrong... when correctly designed and installed, GEO is a good thing... but like everything else.... when installed by the lowest bidder, all bets are off. Maybe your installers were not *competent*, licensed, insured, professionally trained, HVAC technicians and you are subsidizing their training.

[phadippides]

[Tekkie®]

posted for all of us... I don't top post - see either inline or at bottom.

BUT they haven't fixed it yet; have they?

[phadippides]

The installer will be stopping today to install the parts he had on order. From reading up on things it sounds like water hammer altough I have not heard the pipes make the noise. I have to talk to the installer to find out if the solenoid is a slow closing one, or if it slams shut. Things I have found that may make a difference are:

arrestor - not likely to help much larger lines to slow down the speed in which water is travelling a pressure tank to absorb the shock wave when the solenoid is closed a slow closing solenoid if its not already on there.

My theory is that most ground water geothermal units use a well, and the majority of those wells have the pressure tanks, elminating the shockwave when the solenoid closes, with the constant pressure pump, there is no where for the shockwave to go, so it finds its own way out.

I will follow up on this post at a later time incase anyone else has the same problem.

[geoman]

Good point, and there the ones who designed and installed it.

I love it when Carrier, about the worse company in the world to deal with with technical problems because they hire some of the stupidest people I've ever had to deal with, comes to a job and cant fiquire it out.

I could tell you story upon story about this.

Besides, the guy from 'Carrier' was NOT from Carrier!! He was a rep from the supply house who most likely had relatives that got him the job. Seen it too many times, especially with RSC who probably is the supplier. Everyone up here in the company is somehow related.

The local Carrier company put in a 1.2 million dollar hvac system in the court house. It didn't work. Carrier came down (once again the suppliers rep and not Carrier) and he was a licensed engineer. They said, 'well of course this system won't work with the old controls, thats another $150,000 please." The judge actually told the comminsioners to pay up or go to jail! But the Carrier people didn't show any shame in shamming our county! Whyd didnt' they mention that it wasn't going to work with the controls?

So, ask them to send a REAL rep from Carrier and see if they can help.

[geoman]

"hammer(something)"

This is the clue, what causes hammering. Think about it. how would a system all of a sudden create a hammering situation?

take a few pictures of the plumbing and valves, put them on the net and I know someone will give you the answer.

Got to go back to work now make a living so I too can afford such an expensive system as you have. ....

[Bob Pietrangelo]

Your theory is wrong. Most Geothermal Units, with the least problems have closed loop

[Dido]

I see you have few answers but what I don't understand why any one would used solenoid in water system that is use in head pressure control " if " one is use fort hat . I guess the valve that suppose to be use, it is not cost effective As for pump as much I know about it, it should have surge tank pressure switch and check valve in suction line but not solenoid valve! if one happen to be used then it should be of hydronic type it should close very "s l o w l y" other wise it will hammer. Good luck from Dido

[phadippides]

Just an update to the installed parts:

1 Large Sioux Chief HYDRA-RESTER (right before Taco) 1 Taco slow closing solenoid valve 1 Pressure reducer (I believe its set to 45 psi) (at the beginning of the water line to the unit) 1 Pressure Expansion Tank (about 4-5 gallons) (right after pressure reducer) Changed PVC lines to Copper Lines

Its only been a day so it will take a while to see if these work.