Roundup - how far travel?

[Persephone]

Many thanks to the kind (mostly!) posters who offered help. Your experience & advice appreciated.

[Charlie]

There is nothing kind about using poison or supporting monsatano or any of the other purveyors of death with even one penny or moment of consideration. I don't give a fat baby's ass if you consider me unkind or not.....quit poisoning my nest!!!

Charlie

[Shanghai McCoy]

Put it in a sprayer. It WILL kill grass too, so watch out.

[enigma]

Charlie wrote in news: [e-mail]:

how do you remove poison ivy? if not glyphospate painted on cut stems, then how? i hate Roundup, but the poison ivy has to go... is there a better way than cutting the vines & painting the stumps with glyphospate?

lee

[Jangchub]

What did people do before glysophate? How did the earth turn back then? I mean, do what you want, but there are other methods and if you have the Internet in your house you have a world library to search through.

[Bill]

On a small scale. I keep an eye out and mark new plants. Wait for a few back to back rainy days. Then dress to cover. Slowly pull the plant out trying not to leave rootlets. This is placed in a black trash bag. Followed by a good shower. Works if the ivy is somewhat under control already. Ivy here is shallow rooted but spreads via runners.

Bill

Bill

[enigma]

Bill wrote in news: [e-mail] news.net:

on a small scale, i agree. i use vinegar to good effect on any small plants that pop up here at the home farm. poison ivy berries are excellent winter bird food, so i leave the PI over on the other side of the pond alone for the birds. my problem PI is at a place i bought in NY, where i have ivy vines up to 4" across running up trees. just cutting the vine kills the top, obviously, but then there's a dead urshurol loaded vine up the tree & huge amounts of shrubby growth coming from the huge root system that supported that vine. i'm violently allergic. the ivy needs to go. how did people cope before glyphospate? hmm. perhaps by dying from their allergies? poison ivy grows in woodland borders. i *could* cut down all the trees & shrubs in the yard & thereby make it inhospitable for poison ivy, i suppose, but then *i* wouldn't want to live there either... lee

[Bill]

Copper nails ?

Bill

[enigma]

Bill wrote in news: [e-mail] news.net:

there's a thought... how would that affect the stream next to the ivy? it's not really deep enough for fish, but it feeds a larger creek... and does copper affect frogs? they're very sensitive to chemicals (another reason to avoid them, although i'm sure the apple orchard across the street uses more chemicals in a season than i *ever* will...) still copper nails sounds like a great experiment at least. lee

[Erik Vastmasd]

On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 12:58:17 +0000 (UTC),when reading "rec.gardens", I'm certain I caught a glimpse of "enigma " saying:

Yes sell your house and live somewhere else. ;-)

Honestly, I'm not acquainted with poison ivy but sometimes something like Roundup is necessary to get rid of a pest in the garden.

[Bill]

You might be able to recover your copper nails after the ivy is dead.

Here is MSDS for Copper.

Bill

[cat daddy]

If you must use an herbicide for poison ivy, use Bonide Brush Killer Bk-32 Conc. (2,4-D) or Brush Killer Bk-32 RTU (Triclopyr). You'll have to make your own assessment of which poison to choose. Our Parks Dept. recommended Triclopyr. And yes, I sold part of my soul, as their alternative was Roundup. Effective in one spraying, it did not kill the grass or even other woody vines in the vicinity. Claims it does not uptake in tree roots, non-toxic after drying, and rainproof in hours. It did kill the roots. It was a huge infestation with arm-sized vines.

[enigma]

"cat daddy" wrote in news:9M2dncRSaub1sdTVnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

but how/why would this be better/different than cutting the vines & painting both sides of the cut with glyphospate? i certainly wouldn't be *spraying* anything. that's horribly inefficient. isn't using the 2,4-D just selling out to Dow rather than Monsanto? lee

[Billy]

Somewhere between assertiveness and laziness, concern and apathy, regard nurturing and pillaging there must be a better answer.

[Persephone]

Vigorous debate is the hallmark of Usenet; that's where we air our differences and share our experiences.

But let us please stop short of ad hominem attacks that only demean the poster, whether or not they're in a good humour when they post.

Ad hominem attacks do not address a problem; they address an individual (or sometimes a race or an ethnicity; than goodness we have been free of THAT particular horror!).-

I know, I know, it happens all over the 'Net, and much, much worse than in this relatively civilized group!

Just hoping we can stick to the issues.

Persephone

[cat daddy]

Almost all descriptions/recommendations for glyphospate suggest repeat applications. Two years after one application of Bk-32 Conc.(2,4-D), we're only now seeing some small re-emergence. Although as I recall, absorption through the leaves seemed most effective, with painting on the larger cut vines required a second painting.

That was part of the soul-selling I mentioned. At $12 a bottle through Bonide, Dow isn't getting much. I did spend four days removing everything I could. My gloves were so soaked in oil that I threw them away and went barehanded. The forest of "babies" got sprayed, as that was the most efficient for us. Nothing else died. One can't say the same for Roundup.

[jellybean stonerfish]

I hate bermuda grass. I tried your technique before, turning the soil and removing all pieces. Then repeat. Over and over. But like you said, it comes back at the first sign of water. I found when digging a hole that the roots go down 2 feet or more. I wonder if I will ever win. It is the one thing I hate about my garden.

stonerfish

[Jangchub]

Me too. There is no way to truly get rid of bermuda other than planting trees to shade it out. It will not grow in shade. At least in zone 8b Central Texas it doesn't. I have spent my fair share of digging and pulling and digging and pulling and continue. I saw a batch coming up through my mulch today and wiped my brow in disgust. I'm not sure even glysophate gets rid of it with one shot. Maybe three shots in blazing sun a week apart. I will have to confess that after 15 years gardening in TX I may have to paint the bermuda with glyphosate.

Oh, and never, never, ever plant a Mexican Elderberry. Never.

[Billy]

The weak link in the chain breaks, Armageddon is unleashed, and Monsanto wins. Good going Lucrezia.

[dwight]

My dog patrols the property regularly. She likes to chase squirrels through a line of pine trees that border the yard, and poison ivy was all throughout that stand of trees. I was very proud of myself for donning my "HazMat suit" and pulling out 20-foot vines, peeling the ivy off of each tree, and carefully taking up each 3-leaved plant that I could find. In the end, I had only three little blotches of allergic reaction on both arms, even though I was wearing long gloves and a jacket - I guess I didn't shower quickly enough.

Then I noticed the back fence. 125 feet of chain link fence that separates us from the local reservoir, with poison ivy growing generously along most of its length. It seemed to have come up quickly - I'm sure I would have noticed before it got that bad. But it was daunting. Large growths of the ivy, and I don't have access to the other side of the fence, so I thought I'd try Roundup.

Being an ignorant stool, I read the instructions, then walked slowly along the fence, spraying the foliage as I went. I was supposed to see withering within 24 hours and dead plants within days. But perhaps the deluge of rain a few hours after the spraying had negated the Roundup, because I saw no significant changes four days later. So I sprayed again.

Now, more than a week after the second dose, it looks like I've salted the earth. To be sure, there is nothing back there that looks like poison ivy today, but I've also sacrificed everything within a foot of the fence on both sides.

I walk the grounds regularly, making note of every growth of ivy I find. I don't mind the monthly poison-ivy-pulling weekends (my family is VERY allergic). I won't (can't) have it on the property. But I'm sitting here wondering whether the overkill was worth it. Looking at the dead and withered vines, I have to say, "Yes." But pictures say thousands of words:

while I was back there taking these photos, I see a very healthy growth of what looks to be Japanese honeysuckle and a couple of weeds that look very much like Tree of Heaven. Joy.

dwight