On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:42:45 GMT, Janet Baraclough
This is a whole lot different than saying His Holiness shoots
aggressive birds at the feeders with a rifle. Miles different. He
uses the sound of the air gun. He happens to do this not only to
protect the birds of prey, but to help the predators and keep them
from killing and creating more non-virtue, which will hold them for
eons in the animal realm. They eat meat, but they kill with their
talons and beak, ripping at flesh. For H.H. this is an act of
compassion for the raptor.
Secondly, His Holiness eats meat only when his health absolutely
requires it and when he goes to a special award dinner or has audience
with people from other countries which don't know Buddhists are mostly
vegetarians (I am) and will cook delicious meat shrimp, etc. When
teaching, H.H. often says if you must eat meat, eat the meat of a
large animal so only one life had to be taken to feed many people.
Thus, shrimp are out of the question, or fish. He will eat it so not
to be rude. It's not that important for a living Buddha to be
concerned with karma because he no longer creates it.
This is not really a discussion for this newsgroup, but it frustrates
me when people don't look at the whole scope, put all the information
together accurately and report it using wisdom. I can't or won't
allow someone to say His Holiness shoots birds with his rifle when I
know he would rather die.
He fires a weapon of death and injury, whose pellets might well hit
any bird, " just to make a sound" ? He could perfectly well make a
scare-noise in some harmless way that's not associated with causing
death and injury. A compressed air horn, clapping hands, or banging
saucepan lids together.
For him to buy, keep, use an air rifle, tacitly supports that industry
He happens to do this not only to
I suspect he has more sense and humility than to pretend that.
Raptors kill/ dismember/ eat meat because otherwise they would die.
The same justification he uses for his own meat consumption. At least
birds don't pretend to only do it out of social courtesy.
Why would birds killing and slicing meat with the body/tools provided
by their creator for the purpose, be any more, or less virtuous, than a
slaughterman picking up a tool designed for the purpose and using it to
kill and butcher the meat which HH then eats?
As do raptors.
and when he goes to a special award dinner or has audience
He never travels incognito or alone. Wherever he goes, worldwide, he
is escorted AND preceded by security operations and a whole team making
his arrangements in advance in minute detail.His hosts know in advance
who and what he is, and are instructed well in advance, what his needs
are and the protocol for hosting the Dalai Lama. If hosts of such an
eminent guest offer him a dinner menu that includes meat, it's because
they have been pre-advised it won't cause offence, and he might choose
to eat it.. Not, because they know nothing about Buddhism.
Aside from social occasions, he also chooses to eat meat off his own
bat. In order for him to do so, someone HH believes does have karma to
consider, has killed and prepared that flesh on his behalf. Are you
saying, HH has no concern for that person's karma?
I can't or won't
Well, no. When faced with the option of "eat killed meat, or die",
HH chose that animals would die rather than himself.
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:20:45 GMT, Janet Baraclough
Is nothing sacred to you, even in part? I didn't think so. I've
never seen one nice post to me in the entire time I've been coming to
this newsgroup. I see nothing changes in the small minded. And no,
not everyone knows the protocol. H.H. attendants do not instruct
anyone as it is the hosts invitation and that said the host...oh
forget it. I certainly don't need to defend The Dalai Lama. You just
dislike me, so you make a feable attempt at talking about someone like
he is a rock star.
Certainly not, the words and ideas of human beings on a newsgroup or
in a press report.
I didn't think so. I've
Boohoo. It's usenet, not your fan club.
To correct your self-centred delusion of eternal victimhood, I
defended you on this group only days ago, against a wrong accusation.
Nothing to do with like or dislike of you, but because I knew it was
inaccurate, and to my mind, in a discussion, truth and integrity
matter. Even on usenet.
Thinking about it, would enlighten you.
Well, we agree on that. The DL needs your "defence", like a hole in
(So much for "unattachment"!!!!!)
I have not likened anyone to a rock star. Surely you recognise why any
internationally important figure on public engagements, is preceded by
detailed arrangements, agreed in advance between the host and the VIP's
team of assistants. The DL is no exception.
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:43:30 GMT, Janet Baraclough
I'm now going to once again "unattach" myself to your silly statements
about someone you've probably never seen in person, let alone know how
his attendants give orders of protocol to hosts. It's not done. If
the host asks, they give protocol. If not, they proceed.
Well, I have seen the Dalai Lama in person, at a lecture a few
He looked like a fairly regular old guy (except for his great
booming deep voice.) He had a slight cold, and occasionally put
a crumpled Kleenex to his nose.
I didn't feel any urge to worship him.
Puh-leeeze... He would probably feel great relief at having an
encounter without all the trappings. He has been quoted as
laughing at the pretentiousness of that title, "His Holiness."
A hypothetical visit to my home? I would show him my vegetable
garden (see? ON-topic!) Then maybe lunch of store-bought rice
plus my own veggies. And just hang out with some positive,
one-to-one conversation. Maybe hoping that my home and
possessions - quite modest by many western standards - wouldn't
seem too proud or wealthy.
"Protocol"? Nah, wouldn't have time for that snotty little
So have I. He's been to Scotland several times, and (like many people
on this island) I have a longstanding connection to his Buddhist monk
I met him in a bitterly cold and windy snowstorm All the lay people
were huddled in layers of fleece, waterproofs and boots. The Buddhist
monks and nuns were wearing their thin draughty robes with bare arms
and legs , they had walked quite a long way in these atrocious
conditions and all were grey-blue with cold, covered in goosebumps and
shivering. All except the Dalai Lama, who was just as exposed in his
robes, had walked just as far in atrocious conditions, and was beaming
joy and his bare skin glowing radiantly like a man who had just
stepped out of a sauna. This was clearly not a regular guy :-)
He seemed a very down to earth person who wouldn't want you to :-)
"Advance arrangements", was my term. Not trappings, or "orders given
"..(that was Victorias delusion)..
I'm not talking about "trappings and snotty pretentiousness". Just
The DL does not move around surrounded by shoulder to shoulder
uniformed guards, but don't be fooled by the apparently casual open
simplicity of his personal approach. He's under heavy security.
Your home would have been security vetted beforehand.
Back to His Holy Molee topic: We should all be mindful that we make
life and death choices for many animals every day. Most of us eat
animals that someone had to kill. Or we eat the eggs of animals that
destroy the future life of the egg.
Sometimes we put our pet animals down when they get old or sick.
Sometimes we carelessly subject our pets to risks such as when we
expose them to harmful pesticides we spray around our gardens.
I got mad at a bluejay recently when I saw him eating the eggs of a
finch nested on my window sill. The only thing I could do was hope
that maybe someday my cat would catch him by surprise. My cat, whom I
call Princess, is a great hunter, and almost every day finds a rodent
to catch and torture. She's actually quite brutal when she catches
something, throwing it around, chewing its head, flipping it high in
the air, pawing it to try to make it move just a little so that she
can pounce on it again. Sometimes, I feel sorry for the rodent. His
life would have ended more painlessly had someone shot a pellet
through his heart.
The lesson I take from these observations, is that we all kill living
things, little or big animals, plants we don't like in a certain spot,
Agriculture (monoculture) in general is very destructive to the
ecology and destroys the habitats of many beautiful critters. Yet we
need the food it produces in order to survive. However, I feel better
when I use a kinder way of taking the life of a critter that has
feelings and wants to live, just like me.
If you're interested in more about the damages caused by agriculture,
read "On the Semantics of Evolution" available free online.
On the other hand, a good Buddhist would be willing to recognise
that NOT all Buddhists are actually enlightened. And that the
vast majority are still engaged in delusions and attachments and
And a good Buddhist will work to recognise his/her OWN LACK of
Then again, there are plenty of not-so-skilled Buddhists who act
elitist, and who assume (or at least present) the idea that,
reading the sutras, and being on the path, magically equates
being enlightened. It's called being snotty, which DOES mean an
implication of being, "special."
I'm soooo glad that I have the humility to be the first category.
And I try feel compassion for those in the second.
Because people who think that they already know everything, are
thus refusing to ever learn anything new. And thus perpetuate
their delusions and ignorance (and arrogance...)
He has been quoted about it in an interview in the New York
Times. Although, apparently, he just shoots in the direction of
predatory birds, to scare them away from the smaller birds at is
Maybe in a past life, you were a tight-assed Jain?
I had moles and started a trap war. You need to learn how to set the
trap and it works. I got red of them and when a new one shows up I have
it within a day. The Vector spear trap works fine if you learn how to
From Mel & Donnie in Bluebird Valley
send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any
freakin' spam> wrote:
I have tried just about everything to get rid of the moles, but after 22 years
they are still in my yard.From what i have read trap killing them works the
best, but takes alot of time and you have to find where they are digging
also.Also my cat has caught quite a few of them,but they keep coming back.Have
you thought about selling your home? Rick
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