On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:44:42 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
I'm in Texas USDA Zone 8b. Last average frost is in two weeks. I
have not planted anything out yet, but the flats are out there and I
can bring them in if it gets below 45. I have some S. greggii and
lambs ears, etc. Now is still early enough for that, but it was 87
degrees yesterday and 82 today. We call that cool! Brrrrr.
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 17:43:37 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
You know, pennyroyal is actually proven to repel fleas and is low
growing. It's also not AS invasive as peppermint and has a stronger
fragrance. I believe it only gets to about six inches. That may be
an option for you.
Why are you asking me? What does your local dog ordinance say? If the
law is on your side, then talk to the law. A photograph of the deed
being done is good proof of who the culprit is, too.
One dipshit owner does not make all dogs and all owners scoundrels.
This example has nothing to do with dog ordinances. And, there's no reason
(or easy way) to photograph plants covered in piss. The issue is this: If a
property owner asks you not to do something on their property, you do not
ask why. You obey. If you disagree with what I've just said, then I have the
right to urinate on your dog, in your mail box, or anything on that
property, and there's nothing you can do about it.
With me so far?
Of course it does. If there is a law against it, then evoke the law.
Get the dog lifting it's leg. Let the police extroplate from there.
Is there a law against asking why?
No, I believe that is classified as assault AND indecent exposure. Do so
and you'd be in much, much, MUCH more trouble than the dog owner. But,
hey, don't let me stop you from trying it. Get back to us on how that
works out for you.
Our dog ordinances say dog owners must clean up after their animals. Not
likely with dog piss.
Yeah. I'll stand outside all day with a camera. :-)
Of course not. But, the laws against trespassing do not require that the
landowner explain anything. You know that.
Assault? Not really. Got a car you love? What if I walk onto your property
and start spray painting it a new color? Why would I do this? Because it was
a convenient place to stop and paint a car! No different than doing what's
convenient for your dog. Now, you'll say the car is damaged, but it's not.
It'll still do what a car needs to do. The pissed-on plants may not, or they
might, so let's choose the latter and call the two situations equal.
See what you're doing here? You're trying to twist your interpretation of
law (and common decency) to suit a particular type of pet. You're doing this
because the dog needs to walk, and it needs to crap & piss while being
walked. Therefore, you have made behavioral adjustments because of the dog.
Another way to describe this is training. You have been trained by your pet.
Pissing on someone is assault and public indecency. Ask a policeman.
Or, as I suggested, try it. Get back to me after you make bail.
This is truly bizarre.
*I'm* twisting logic? You're talking about pissing on people and in
mailboxes and vandalizing cars and *I'M* twisting logic? My my.
To reiterate a point you seem unable to grok: my animals stay on my
property. I'm sorry your neighbor's animals don't do that but, truth be
told, I feel much more sorry for your neighbors AND their animals.
Nice talking to you but it won't happen again in the future.
Assault? A plant is a living thing. Why isn't pissing on a plant considered
assault? Can I piss on your dog? Is your dog more precious than my plants?
Indecency? A dog's penis is no more or less "indecent" than a human's.
What's with the double standard?
Why bizarre? Let's say your hobby is restoring antique cars. You spend many
hours lovingly working on them, and there's never enough time. My hobby is
gardening. I spend as much time gardening as you do working on your antique
cars. If your dog can piss on my hobby, why can't I piss on yours?
I'm twisting logic? I've just taught you how you've created an imaginary
fantasy world of laws and morals to adjust for the antisocial needs of dogs.
Your world conveniently ignores actual laws which are the same everywhere in
America and in many Western countries. You're silly.
I understand that YOUR animals stay on your property. The point here is when
some say "I'm a good dog owner - my dogs don't roam the neighborhood without
me", they're not quite correct. Even on a leash, many "good dog owners"
still don't get it.
Then get some of those little signs that stake in the ground that say
"NO PETS" or "PLEASE DON'T PEE HERE" (they exist, I've seen them). Put
them at the edge of your flower bed to help educate all those dog
owners who don't know that people like you get really upset about this.
The signs are non-confrontational and require no active participation
Got a hose? Water the damned plant and get over it. Ordinances
regarding dog waste are for feces, and you know that. Spend your life
being superior, complaining and judging, or water your garden and get
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
It's not anger. Frankly, it's an interesting legal debate, but for some
people, that involves some heavy lifting. They don't realize that in Supreme
Court hearings, the justices use hypothetical ideas that seem outrageous,
but they're important for purposes of pushing peoples' legal thinking to
extremes. The same thing goes on with dog owners. Was it you who asked
earlier why someone didn't deserve an explanation about why I wanted no dogs
on the property? A judge might ask you this: If you're hiking, and see lots
of signs saying "No Trespassing", do you disobey the signs because they
don't contain a reason why?
I find the discussion very peaceful.
On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 02:51:57 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
I don't believe I said someone didn't deserve and explanation...
I do know if I was really annoyed by something and I needed to sit
with a camera around the usual time this person walks their dog, I'd
There are laws which protect you as well as me, but the downside of
making reports on people is that their animals usually wind up in the
pound and euthanized.
It's never the fault of the animal. This discussion comes up now and
then in rec.gardens. Nothing is ever resolved. Have you actually
asked this person not to allow their dog to pee on your plants? If
so, what did that person say? On the other hand, you can hose the
plants off and be on with life.
When these little inconveniences prop up for me I think about the
thousand people who just died all over the world from either
starvation, not a drop of water, or HIV AIDS. I think of the child in
Africa who dies alone at the age of five and a huge vulture now has
some food. There are so many more important things in the world and
locally to put energy into.
I know you really hate when the dog pees, but either do the waiting
with the camera and report that person, or do something else to take
your mind off it. Nobody is in disagreement that you have rights.
This discussion has been peaceful. By now most of these type
discussions end in total idiocy. Get the camera out, OR put a video
camera up where it can see the dog doing this. You should be able to
get several hours out of the tape. Eventually you'll capture it.
When babies start walking and investigating everything in the house, most
people put safety locks on cabinets containing anything that could hurt a
baby. Assuming the home did NOT have these safety locks in place before the
baby, would you agree that their appearance is related to the presence of
the new baby?
One obeyed, and remained friendly. Two said that the first X feet of
property belongs to the public, which is not true (according to our town
justice), and continued to argue. All three were asked politely, in the
exact same way.
You could use this logic to justify looking the other way for almost any
kind of crime. I've got a friend who could remove a picture window from your
house, intact and undamaged, in under 1/2 hour. Would that be OK with you?
After all, it's not assault or indecent exposure, and it's certainly not a
bad as a child starving in Africa. I just like your window and I feel like
having it, purely on a whim. You wouldn't call the police, right?
That would only help if I wanted to waste time at our town court. I'm
considerate of my neighbors. I expect the same, without having to spend
money or take time off from work in order to make it happen. Some of us
understand that when you work hard to have a nice home, you have the right
to peace and harmony.
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