OK, It's a moderately nice January day and I finished pruning the apple trees. Looks like it's going to be a great year for apples but I need to know the what, when, where, and how much of spraying apples trees to fend off both predator and disease!
Any advice, references, etc???
Ron H. West Central Wisconsin
Piggy-backing on Ron's question, I've always heard that apples are THE most sprayed of all crops, and that one should avoid the seeds and peel at the very least. And preferably eat organic apples.
Is this true about the spraying? Does it apply only to large commercial orchards (maybe Ron's IS a l.c.o.).
Looking forward to the wisdom of Those Who Know.
Persephone
Report Card: Pesticides in Produce
Pesticides in Apples
. Apples . Bell Peppers . Celery . Cherries . Imported Grapes . Nectarines . Peaches . Pears . Potatoes . Red Raspberries . Spinach . Strawberries
Or, grow some of them yourself, if possible. In my garden (upstate NY), I've never had any reason to spray peppers, potatoes, raspberries, spinach or strawberries. They all turn out flawless. Climate is a factor, as is the time of year the crops are grown, relative to the life cycle of certain pests.
You have to spray them prior to bloom, during bloom, and each week after bloom for a couple of months. If I understand that right, that is just for the worm that goes to the core. Then you have apple maggots that come later and probably something else.
You can also put traps in your trees to get a lot of them. Some have a sweet liquid to draw the bugs in and then they drown. Another is covered with sticky stuff and when the bugs get on it, then they cant get off.
Gardens Alive has a good line of stuff for sale. I have bought from them but cant vouch for everything they have.
I get apples and pears from trees that have not been sprayed and cut out the worms.
Dwayne
Hi Ron, It would be a bit helpful to know where you are located, but not critical to this issue. The first line of defense would be a spraying of dormant oil. This will smother the eggs of the insects before they emerge. Pick a dry spell and reasonably warm days above freezing, to apply. Add a 'sticker' for retention. Too early and you may lose some effect from the washing away of the oil, and too late might miss the emergence of the insects from their eggs. I would follow up with spraying with fungicide in the Spring. You can add a pesticide to this after the petals fall from the blossoms, to avoid killing any friendly pollinator insects like bees. After this, follow up with periodic spraying every few weeks, to harvest. I would recommend a general orchard spray for this later spraying. If you find you have some really nasty bugs or fungus problems, you may have to change the sprays to something stronger and more specific. This sounds kind of nebulous, but you need to figure out what kinds of bugs and fungus are attacking your trees. You can check with your local Extension Services for assistance, if normal measures don't work. Be sure and wear a breather mask, cover all exposed skin, goggles over the eyes, and wash up good afterwards, when using the chemicals.
Sherw> OK, It's a moderately nice January day and I finished pruning the apple
Just noticed you are in Central Wisconsin. You can start the dormant oil on some nice day in March or April. Hopefully, the temperatures will have moderated, by then.
Sherwin D.
Hi Persephone,
Apple growers seem to be divided into two camps, organic and the rest of us. I am not a strict organic guy. I have seen the results of other hobbyist apple growers, who try to be organic, and I find the results disappointing. They are content with losing a portion of their crop, whereas, I want to preserve as much as I can. I use a combination of spraying and organic methods (sticky balls, traps, etc.). In my area, these organic methods are not enough to fully protect the fruit. I don't feel my health is endangered by spraying, when using certain precautions. One is to stop spraying a few weeks before harvest to give the sun time to burn off the chemicals and the wind and rain to do a similar job. As a secondary precaution, I wash all my fruit with a mild soap solution. Do I remove the chemicals 100 per cent? Probably not, but the residue is very small. The chemicals do not penetrate the skin, so if it still of concern, you can peel the skin off before eating.
I never buy store apples, but for them, I would certainly take the second and third steps. I don't trust the 'organic' label on apples. I suspect some of them may be sprayed occasionally with chemicals, if a farmer is in danger of losing his crop.
The seeds are not susceptable to spray contamination, and besides, who eats them anyways?
Sherw> >
Each week may be a bit of overkill. You can stretch it out to two or three weeks, but it depends on how badly the trees are being attacked. For certain pests, there is a critical time to kill them, and that would be the period to hit them hard. For just general maintenance and protection, you can let it slide, a bit. Don't wait too long though, as you may miss the entry of something nasty that you weren't expecting and miss the window to stop it.
I have given up on the pheramone traps from Garden's Alive because the lures are too expensive, and I don't find them any more effective than sticky balls.
That works fine if you are the only consumer, but you don't want to give away
any damaged apples to your friends and neighbors. Reminds me of the old saying that what is worse than finding a worm in an apple? Answer: not finding it.
Sherwin D.
The one I heard goes:
What is worse than finding a worm in an apple when you bite into it?
Answer: Half a worm.
I don't know what you spray with, but as the web sites indicate, some products are systemic, so you can wash your apples all day long and you won't get rid of those chemicals. And, sun, wind & rain won't do a thing, either.
I don't grow fruit trees, but I seem to recall reading about the idea of using a material similar to floating row cover to completely wrap dwarf trees. Obviously, this won't address fungus problems, but it should certainly help with some of the bugs. Have you explored this idea?
You are definitely wrong about the sun, wind, & rain. It's a question of quantity, and I specifically said that the residue remaining would not be significant. We ingest much more junk into our bodies by just breathing our poluted air. If you wanted to be safe, you would become another 'bubble boy', who was locked into a completely controlled environment because of his poor immune system. If you define organic to something that grows naturally, you may want to think about Wolfsbane, Death Angel Mushrooms, Marijuana, Hemlock, Foxglove, Mandrake, Poison Sumac, etc. I am not suggesting these are used on apples, but I am just using that as an illustration for comparison.
It's called 'Surround'. It is a disgusting powder that covers your fruit. I have tried it and it doesn't do the job. It's a pain to apply, and an even greater pain to clean off after harvest. Surround is primarily made of Kaolin, a clay substance. I checked on the potential problems of ingesting clay on a medical website and they claim the following: "Clay or dirt eating has been associated with lead poisoning in infants, children, and pregnant women, with potential risks such as low red blood cell count and brain damage. Clay or dirt eating has been associated with lead poisoning in infants, children, and pregnant women, with potential risks such as low red blood cell count and brain damage." Seems like this organic spray has potential detrimental effects, as well.
Unfortunately, the organic sprays have a long way to go to approach the effectiveness of chemical sprays. I am experimenting with covering the apples with zip lock bags and mesh nets. It seems to be working nicely, but it is an extremely labor intensive approach, and only practical in protecting a small percentage of my apples.
I'm definitely wrong about sun, wind and rain?? Before we continue, let's agree on some definitions. Do you know what "systemic" means? Do not post links to dictionaries or any other source. Tell me in your own words what a systemic pesticide is.
No, I'm not talking around something you spray or dust onto the fruit. I'm talking about a gossamer-like fabric which allows light & rain to penetrate, but stops the majority of insects from contacting the plant. In catalogs and garden stores, you'll see it labeled as "floating row cover" because it's so lightweight that it appears to float. I can't recall where, but in the past, I've seen it sold in larger sizes for covering dwarf fruit trees. You'd obviously need to wait until enough pollination had taken place, and then cover the tree. Do some research. You might discover something interesting.
Since you were the first one to use the term, why don't you tell me what you meant it to be?
I have heard of this material for ground covers on plants like strawberries, but I do not see it as a practical use atop a fruit tree. The branches of the tree would poke holes in it allowing the critters to come in.
You're pretty slippery. A systemic is a substance which is absorbed into the plant's tissue. It is not removed by wind, rain, sun, or washing the fruit. It may break down in some way, but since you know nothing about the chemicals you're discussing, you can't make that claim without further research. You're exactly the kind of customer the chemical companies hope for.
The foodnews.org site provides a list of chemicals commonly found in certain fruits and vegetables. Some are systemic. Their list is a good starting point for your learning process.
Never having used it, you have no basis for the claim that it would be mechanically unreliable. You just want to believe it. Faith has no place in science or gardening.
My Appologies to the group! I didn't intend to start a pissing contest!
Ron H.
You didn't, Ron. There's always one shmexpert around who likes to spread misinformation about pesticides. I enjoy crushing them.
As far as your situation, I like what the late Henry Mitchell (a garden writer) said about growing one's own fruit: If you buy sprayed fruit from the grocery store, you're exposed to weird chemicals. If you spray it yourself, you're exposed to it even more.
Do some research on organic methods. You might not get perfect apples, but you can probably take some measures that will make an improvement over doing nothing.
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