Source of microgreens seeds?

[songbird]

only people who put themselves in that category are certain to remain there. the rest of us refuse such classifications and do what we can. some may appear trivial, but here is one example to counter your statement.

in Africa there was a desert reforestation project being conducted and the guy working on it was really discouraged because so few of the projects or trees would survive (if even one survived that was a gain for that small space as far as i was concerned). then he noticed bits of green growing from the ground that were native plants, but in fact they were sprouts from trees that were never allowed or trained to grow larger (over grazing, trampled, cut off for firewood). so he started talking to the people about how if they would allow these sprouts to grow and train a few to get larger then they could have trees again, that would survive, but the people had to protect them and work a bit to get the sprouts growing.

the result was not a few trees in a small area, but over five million hectares of near desert returned to more tree cover. that added wind-break on a hot day often means the double or triple of a crop return. not counting the fruits and firewood and the many returning animals and insects or improved soil. how many tons of extra carbon put back into the soil? no measurement but it wouldn't be a small amount.

what was the cost? nothing. it wasn't a formal project sponsored by any government. it worked by word of mouth as farmers saw the actual results and how things improved.

here is a link which gives more details:

another smaller example would be the Strong Bees of the Chikukwa, but i won't spoil that story by attempting to summarize. it's a good read, these people just did it and they'll keep on going in some form even if the government or international organizations abandon them again.

if it gets done it surely isn't insufficient.

too slow. doing is faster. but, yes, vote, and i do.

add the right scrubbers and processes and that becomes much less of a problem. not that i think it's a good idea to still be burning coal, but i doubt China or India will be giving it up any time soon. if we can encourage them to add better CO2 scrubbing then we've gained something where if we just throw our hands up and say nothing can be done, then we've fallen victim to a fantasy far worse than hoping people will make needed changes.

songbird

[Farm1]

'Bird, David and I both live in Oz and since Oz is the home of permaculture, he and I wopuld both know of multiple examples where those sorts of projects have been implemented and are working in the 3rd world. In the 3rd world people still know how to perform hard physical work. They will put in personal physical effort wtihout a tractor or an air conditioner being available or even sought.

Sadly you, like David and I both live in the 1st world and that is where the problems lie and from where they stem. The 3rd world knows that they have to do without unless they do for themsleves and they (with the excepton of the emerging tiger economies) arent' where the solutions lie. Our 1st world is not the same at all. It's a greedy, rapacious, unthinking, uncaring place where everyone buys new T shirts every year.

Now you may wonder why I ended that sentence with the phrase about T shirts, but T shirts are an analogy for so many of the ills of our 1st world. We export the work, we export the pollution of production, we import the profit and the goods - you'd know enough to fill in the rest of the analogy I'm sure.

In the 1st world where the problems stem, it can't get done without political input and legistlation. It doesn't get done because you and me recycle our cans and bottles and compost and grow food.

David sees coal by the millions of tons of boat loads being exported from a port near him. That coal is going to pollute a 3rd world country so we can buy back T shirts and breathe more carbon rich air produced by that 3rd world making the T shirt.

And that is all any of us can do in our positions (other than reccyling our cans and bottle and growing and composting)

It will if they are compelled by legislation to install scrubbers. Until then they are not going to do it out of the goodness of their managerial hearts because then they will have to pay out less to shareholders.

not that i think

They might if countries like Australia and other coal producers have legislative restrictions that apply. Of course that supposes that the 1st world will think about its T shirts.

if we can encourage them to add better CO2

OK 'Bird, off you go and tell China and India to put in scrubbers. I'll join you in doing so as I'm sure will David and every other poster who posts here.

A nanasecond of thinking asbout that will tell you how effective we few will be.

Now if my country's government had some guts and was prepared to look the Chinese government representatives in the eye and bargain like the Chinese do, we might just manage to get some scrubbers in place in one or 2 places in China.

[David Hare-Scott]

Your argument might be relevant if you would stick to the efficacy of individual climate change action. I am not interested in debating the generality of every situation around the world where individual action might or might not work to bring about change. The comparison with permaculture is just an argument by analogy which says nothing about the case at hand. We have both said enough OT already so lets leave it there.

D

[songbird]

David Hare-Scott wrote: ...

...

i addressed the "completely trivial" point.

every bit of extra CO2 counts no matter how it gets taken out of the air. helps avoid the compounded series of problems later or makes them some amount smaller.

CO2 sequestration isn't OT for gardeners.

songbird

[Derald]

That is as may be but it certainly is time for this gardening old fart to hit the "ignore thread" jimmie.

[S.Rodgers]

Hi, there. Mesclun mixes, especially.

Thx!

[S.Rodgers]

Well, yes, I suppose sprouts can be classified as microgreens, but sprouts are easy to buy. Things like lentils, wheatgrass, sunflower seeds, all can be bought in bulk.

Mesclun, cannot. And the seeds are ridiculously expensive since if you let the plants grow to maturity, then, fine. You'd not be paying any more than any regular seed. But like sprouts, microgreens such as baby spinach, mesclun, baby lettuces, a little packet of seeds won't grow much and so it makes them way more expensive than if you're buying to grow plants to full term.

[S.Rodgers]

Microgreens are just a way for us apartment dwellers to have salad greens all year around. That's the idea, anyway. I already grow sunflower seeds, pea shoots and wheatgrass in flats in my tiny bachelor apartment, but I'd like to expand to grow salad greens but only as microgreens and not as full plants. I just don't have the room or the time for that. My favourite microgreen is mesclun mix which sells locally in grocery stores and health food store as more expensive than greens since they're much more tender and the growers have to use a lot more seed to get yields.

[S.Rodgers]

Thanks for that link. I'm seeing that no matter what, prices are still exhorbitant. Better when one can buy buy the gram rather than seed packet, but still very pricey.

I was even hoping there would be a way to find a grass-roots source where perhaps I could barter for seeds or ... something. Unfortunately, it always comes down the same thing. 20 years ago I couldn't get involved with a heritage seed exchange program because I was living then in an apartment (actually, it was smaller than my present bachelor apartment!) so I couldn't participate in exchanging heirloom seeds.

Well, will keep looking around. I'm betting that instead of ordering online, I'll have to find a local farm solution or something. Will have to figure this one out.

Thanks!

[S.Rodgers]

Thanks, another great resource. I'm still seeing the same trend, though. It's still shockingly expensive. But what was I to expect, I guess ...

My local go-to place for all things gardening (despite being an apartment-dweller) does sell small bulk amounts, too, but they're not organic. And organic becomes an issue esp. the smaller the size of the resulting produce. So I daren't go that route.

Well, thanks everyone. I have a lot to think about. Interesting tangent on political and other issues, too. That was fun .

I'll report back if I find a viable, cost-effective solution.

Cheers.

[David Hare-Scott]

And why would eat them so small and not let them grow? Is this a new form of conspicuous consumption?

D

[David Hare-Scott]

That doesn't help me at all. I know what mesclun mix is. Why call it something else? What is the point?

D

[songbird]

S.Rodgers wrote: ...

ah, well yes, that's going to increase any price unless you happen to know someone who will grow them for you.

where are you located? might want to try a wanted advertisement on craigslist...

if you like turnip greens check the local grain elevators as some will carry them by the lb for a few dollars. they will not be rated food safe for eating directly (the seeds) but they should sprout just fine for greens (not likely to be organic source, but you can always ask).

they may have other seeds or be able to source them for you if you ask nicely.

songbird

[phorbin]

If you've the time, energy and will, and there is such a thing in your area, what about taking a public allotment garden?

[Rick]

You can get bulk meslun here at $6 per oz- Thats enough for about 400 feet of row crop.

I have not purchased anything from the vendor.

[S.Rodgers]

Thanks for that suggestion. There aren't any near me whatsoever, and one that is far costs too much.

But back to my original question, anyone have any ideas re seeds. I've been looking and even were I to grow a garden, the cost of those little packets is too steep.

Hoping someone knew of a cost effective solutions for this. thx. Heck, it's worth a try to ask the question one last time.

[S.Rodgers]

Thanks, songbird. Too bad I live in such an urban area. But any tips appreciated. I can start asking around.

[S.Rodgers]

Thank you! One of the challenges is since I've always had to be an apartment dweller is that I have little experience with how much a certain number of seeds can produce in terms of harvest. But $34 for 1 lb of seeds seems rather more reasonable than what those little packets cost when comparing the numbers in the yields. And it says on the bottom of that page: "On average, 1oz of seed can produce 1500 plants." Seems quite reasonable in numbers though experience will tell me what that really means in terms of daily harvest.

I've just emailed the company to see if they have organic mesclun seed, too.

Thanks so much for all the help here! I know you folks are real gardeners and people like me are just dabblers but life got very hard

3 years ago when I took a 40% pay cut. I'm growing my own sunflower seed and pea shoot and wheatgrass sprouts with great success (though wheatgrass I can only classify as only being fairly successful consistently as it gives trouble ), and I am in better health now than before even after a lifetime of indifferent health. If I can figure out the salad angle via microgreens, I'll feel as safe as one can in today's global economy and trends.

Thanks so much! :oD

[S.Rodgers]

Got it! Thanks, Rick, for suggesting the place that has mesclun:

I'm in favour of a mix rather than having to buy of each kind and that price seems the most reasonable so far.

Will see what they say about organic seeds, too.

Cheers and thanks everyone, once again.