it's an important hair to split if you're
talking about sustainable agriculture over
the long term. if it takes materials from
other locations to keep a farm's topsoil
going then it becomes a larger question
about how sustainably those materials are
grown. as it is pretty sure the soils in
that area are already heavily depleted by
tobacco farming it is a critical question
and one i'm surprised you're just ready to
accept as not really important.
i'm not buying the claim as being true.
put in some cooler weather plants. peas/peapods
are my favorites here. for arid climates tepary
beans are one possibility, but i'm not sure how
they do with cool weather.
well yeah, our country doesn't care about
sustainable practices enough as of yet. in
time it will be forced to.
it happens, companies do go private.
links don't help, i'm not always on-line,
it is like a rock sitting in the conversational
well, i'll say i don't agree with many of
his assumptions and so that won't lead me to
much harmony with his conclusions.
i did, i don't agree with too many of his
no sewers in a compost world.
i think a person deserves more respect
in his stated need and desires far above
any formula that some other person at a
distance has come up with.
if i say i can get by on $2/hr who are
you to say i can't?
oh, so they're not poisons after all? :)
no, i'm just making a joke. i much prefer
my food to be dioxin free...
i've had basic chemistry.
i don't see any perpetual mechanism
for larger molecules or particles to
hold together in the face of being
soaked up and settled out or being
degraded by the sun, beaten on the
shore, coated by bacteria, fungi, etc.
how can you conclude these compounds
persist indefinitely if we were to stop
making more of them?
non-prophet, no-return, rapture free
range nut, all minions adored, this
week's special includes gluten free
t-shirts, just clip this coupon and
Did the bison poop where exactly where they consumed the buffalo grass,
or was it a couple of hundred yards away? I didn't say that Salatin was
making 1" of top soil in a closed system. Like all other news, I get it
second or third hand, through reporters I trust, or from enough
reporters to make it plausible.
" Their system is based on native pastures, without cultivation or new,
³improved² pasture species. The only input has been the feed for the
poultry. This multi-species rotational grazing system builds one inch of
soil a year and returns the family 15 times the income per acre than is
received by neighbouring farms using a set stocking of cattle."
- Andre Leu
President of the Organic Producers Association of Queensland and vice
chair of the Organic Federation of Australia
The above statement, and the praise from Michael Pollan gives me
confidence that the statement is probably true.
That's your prerogative.
My computer's dictionary lists "Make the most efficient use of
non-renewable resources and on-farm resources and integrate, where
appropriate, natural biological cycles and controls", as one of the
attributes of sustainable agriculture.
Doesn't help if you want to grow sweet corn, or melons. If all the stars
line up, we can grow these things, but we have had cool summers for
nearly a decade now, i.e. only 1 - 3 days of temps over 100F, whereas in
the bad ol' days we'd get 6 - 12 100F days.
Too bad the government can't make federal land available for for
They go private so that they won't have to show their books to the
Wierd, I'm using Firefox, and it goes right to it, as does Safari, and
Wouldn't want to amplify on that would you? You disagree with what
What, that a division between the people who did the actual work, and
the planners didn't lead to a stratification of society? The word
civilization comes from the Latin civitas, meaning city or city-state.
You saw his argument on hunter/gatherers superior health?
The point was that wages were tied to the desirability of the job. The
more desirable it was, the less it paid. The less desirable it was, the
more it paid. This isn't the only algorithm to arrive a reasonable wage.
The one we have now is individual greed and exploitation of the society
where they are.
If I say you can get by on $2/day, who are you to argue?
?? Yeah, sometimes they work. Sometimes they don't.
As was pointed out, they are incorporated into the food chain, or they
can settle out like mercury, only to be methylated and introduced into
the food chain (or web, if you will).
Not indefinitely, maybe only 100,000 years, but not indefinitely, unless
they are incorporated into sedimentary rock.
Two for the price of one?
The revolution will not be right back
after a message about a white tornado, white lightning, or white people.
You will not have to worry about a dove in your
bedroom, a tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl.
The revolution will not go better with Coke.
The revolution will not fight the germs that may cause bad breath.
The revolution will put you in the driver's seat.
The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised,
will not be televised, will not be televised.
The revolution will be no re-run brothers;
The revolution will be live.
So what's it to be, Hinayana, or Mahayana?
the above statement is wrong. "The only input"
i'm still king... :)
i have stated multiple times that i consider
Salatin's efforts as _more_ sustainable than
most conventional agriculture. other than that
i couldn't say how sustainable or how it impacts
the surrounding area. mostly i think it is ok.
i'd rather live near his farm than many others.
have you ever tried the smaller baby corn
plants? i'm not a corn guru. around here
all corn that isn't well protected is raccoon
i'm not sure what land you are talking about
but most land i'm aware of that the government
owns is either in cities, military, nuclear
testing, or sparse rangeland that should not
be used for any soil disturbing agriculture.
for a longer term project i'd want ownership.
out west in arid places i'd also require water
rights. it doesn't make any sense to do long
term projects if you can't harvest rain water
to hold back and use and if you aren't sure how
long you'll be there. that is what makes most
property taxes so nasty. it's almost impossible
to do a longer term project that doesn't turn
into yet another exploitive system.
you can think that, but i'm sure in many
cases that is wrong.
if you really have such a negative opinion
of so many others how do you manage to drive
down the road or buy food at the store or do
much of anything other than huddle in a cave
waiting for the boogeyman?
that agriculture was the cause of class divisions.
that he's making valid comparisons between cultures
on the whole. that he's doing much other than picking
what suits the conclusions he's already made.
i'll repeat myself. all groups stratify.
period. full stop. end of statement. function
of the species/brain. we group, divide up,
regroup, etc. constantly. even the most rigid
of the religious societies fragment and divide
once the charismatic leader dies or something
happens which sets enough people off into another
direction. it's just what we do.
any group of people of more than one person
has a class system, rankings, etc. they may be
unspoken and there are likely many different
ones in operation.
and i don't agree, he's sweeping a lot of
things under the rug.
read any modern text on microbiology and
parasitology. read any collection of actual
studies by anthropologists of many different
groups. there are no utopian societies in
the past. all have their challenges and
having read 1491, etc. recently how can you
accept this comparison as being right? if you
took a group from a European area in 1490s and
compared that to a group from the Amazon area
at that time you'd find the Amazons decimated
...rest snipped, gotta get out for a walk before
the rains come...
Would you amplify that response? What other inputs?
What is the source of your doubt? Who claims otherwise?
Just let me adjust the "Sword of Damcles" for you.
Not to put too fine a point on it, your arguments sound as if they are based on
One year I had a really good stand of dent corn, but the sweet corn just
Yeah, I've tried the 60 day wonder corn, but still no go. I'll probably try
the "Golden Bantum" corn again.
I figure I can let rocky the rascally raccoon have a portion of what I grow,
after all, he and his kin were here first.
How about mountain top removal, or strip mining, or just plain
ol' mining? Military bases are being closed. They would be one place
to develope. Agriculture can take place without plows. Any land that
is leased, should have a remediation plan.
Of public lands?
What about downstream users?
Exploitive systems-R-us. The business model is "privatize the profits",
and "socalize the costs" be if foul air, diry water, or sick employees.
Since the dot-com bubble of 1999, more public companies go private each
year, according to financial sources like "Business Week" and CNN.
Reasons for changing the business structure of major corporations vary
from company to company. However, a general trend seems to be because
private companies are subject to less regulatory oversight.
You mean Koch Industries, Bechtel, Cargill, Publix, Pilot Corp., one of
the members of the Big Four accounting firms, Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu,
Hearst Corporation, S. C. Johnson, and Mars which are among the largest
privately held companies in the United States? Oh, ja, you betcha.
You're a regular Pollyanna, aren't you?
Luck doesn't have much to do with it. It's just tinkering to maximize
what I've got. It's a small garden, but it has given me a great education.
There are at least three sets of reasons to explain the findings that
agriculture was bad for health. First, hunter-gatherers enjoyed a varied
diet, while early farmers obtained most of their food from one or a few
starchy crops. The farmers gained cheap calories at the cost of poor
nutrition. (Today just three high-carbohydrate plants--wheat, rice, and
corn--provide the bulk of the calories consumed by the human species,
yet each one is deficient in certain vitamins or amino acids essential
to life.) Second, because of dependence on a limited number of crops,
farmers ran the risk of starvation if one crop failed. Finally, the mere
fact that agriculture encouraged people to clump together in crowded
societies, many of which then carried on trade with other crowded
societies, led to the spread of parasites and infectious disease. (Some
archaeologists think it was crowding, rather than agriculture, that
promoted disease, but this is a chicken-and-egg argument, because
crowding encourages agriculture and vice versa.) Epidemics couldn't
take hold when populations were scattered in small bands that constantly
shifted camp. Tuberculosis and diarrheal disease had to await the rise
of farming, measles and bubonic plague the appearance of large cities.
Besides malnutrition, starvation, and epidemic diseases, farming helped
bring another curse upon humanity: deep class divisions. Hunter-
gatherers have little or no stored food, and no concentrated food
sources, like an orchard or a herd of cows: they live off the wild
plants and animals they obtain each day. Therefore, there can be no
kings, no class of social parasites who grow fat on food seized from
others. Only in a farming population could a healthy, nonproducing elite
set itself above the disease-ridden masses. Skeletons from Greek tombs
at Mycenae c.1500 B.C. suggest that royals enjoyed a better diet than
commoners, since the royal skeletons were two or three inches taller and
had better teeth (on average, one instead of six cavities or missing
teeth). Among Chilean mummies from c. A.D. 1000, the elite were
distinguished not only by ornaments and gold hair clips but also by a
fourfold lower rate of bone lesions caused by disease.
If we consider a twenty-four hour clock on which one hour represents
100,000 years of real past time. It the history of the human race began
at midnight, then we would now be almost at the end of our first day. We
lived as hunter-gatherers for nearly the whole of that day,from midnight
through dawn, noon, and sunset. Finally, at 11:54 p.m., we adopted
agriculture. As our second midnight approaches, will the plight of
famine-stricken peasants gradually spread to engulf us all? Or will
we somehow achieve those seductive blessings that we imagine behind
agriculture's glittering facade and that have so far eluded us?
And your example of that in a hunter/gatherer group would be . . . ?
It used to be, if you didn't like your neighbors, or the local strong
man, you walked away. The food was there for the taking anyway.
Studies by George Armelagos and his colleagues then at the University
of Massachusetts show these early Indian farmers paid a price for their
new-found livelihood. Compared to the huntergatherers who preceded them,
the farmers had a nearly fifty percent increase in enamel defects
indicative of malnutrition, a fourfold increase in iron-deficiency
anemia (evidenced by a bone condition called porotic hyperostosis), a
threefold rise in bone lesions reflecting infectious disease in general,
and an increase in degenerative conditions of the spine, probably
reflecting a lot of hard physical labor. "Life expectancy at birth in
the preagricultural community was about twenty-six years," says
Armelagos, "but in the postagricultural community it was nineteen years.
So these episodes of nutritional stress and infectious disease were
seriously affecting their ability to survive."
[T]he mere fact that agriculture encouraged people to clump together in
crowded societies, many of which then carried on trade with other
crowded societies, led to the spread of parasites and infectious disease.
Similar contrasts in nutrition and health persist on a global scale
today. To people in rich countries like the U.S., it sounds ridiculous
to extol the virtues of hunting and gathering. But Americans are an
elite, dependent on oil and minerals that must often be imported from
countries with poorer health and nutrition. If one could choose between
being a peasant farmer in Ethiopia or a Bushman gatherer in the
Kalahari, which do you think would be the better choice?
Brought from Europe. Neither groupe was hunter/gatherers. The
Amazonians tended huge orchards, which is where most of the terra
preta was found.
And I have ivy that needs pulling, plants that need water, and lettuce,
and flowers to plant.
If I have time, maybe I'll start a new tray of seeds for germination.
Just have to have it done by 6:30 PM, which is when I plop in front of
the TV, margarita in
hand, to watch the news, on Deutsche Welle. Simple tariyaki chicken
dinner tonight. Ten minutes to prep, and then cooks for an hour, and
serve. Not sure whether I'll make a salad, or steam a couple of
artichokes (they're huge). Chives from the garden for the baked potato.
Β la table!
from the books of his that i have read he brings
in corn, wood chips, sawdust, chickens, pigs, turkeys,
and _any_ other organic material he can get for cheap,
in one case he got a truckload of sweet potatoes. i
think he no longer brings in cows as his herd breeds
well enough on it's own [which is great as far as i'm
concerned -- in his _Salad Bar Beef_ book he describes
how he went through and culled out the disease prone
cows and selected for certain characteristics. an
interesting topic in it's own right.]
he also has to bring in other materials for the
packaging and sales, fencing for the fields, fuel for
the tractors, saws, chipper, mower, baler.
his pigs and cows he has butchered off-site so he
looses out on the offal from those for composting.
i don't know what he does for the turkeys or rabbits.
i'm assuming they butcher their own rabbits.
the chicken butchering process is described in several
of the books so that is known to be done on site. the
innards from the chickens gets composted.
reading his books where he describes his practices.
you seem to be as you keep quoting the same point
over and over again even though it has been refuted
by his own words in his own books.
it's the dictator who says who sits where.
as i recline (as a proper state fitting to an
heir of the Roman empire) i'd be more worried
about Procrustean adjustments...
faith in my reading abilities and recall of what
i have read.
...your local garden...
the problem around here is that they don't take
only a few ears and leave the rest alone, they'll
raid the entire garden clean.
for any new projects there are things required
nowadays (called Environmental Impact Studies). i
doubt there are any new mines going in without a
remediation plan also being in place. for the
older mines i don't know what they have set up for
the longer term.
i've not studied western water rights as i
don't live out that ways (but it is becoming
a topic of interest because a relative has
some land out there and they are asking me
questions and we're talking about their site).
there's more than one business model.
i keep thinking you have no actual experience
in small businesses, non-profits or
governmental organizations. it seems you
are only bent upon larger corporations and
even some of those are decent and do what
they can to help out.
recently there was a list of companies
and organizations published that purchase
clean energy credits to offset their energy
use. is that something you see a company
doing if they had no interest in being
statistics would be interesting to back this up.
more and more companies could be going private just
because there are more and more companies overall.
many have been created since so many people lost
work and had to start their own things up from
scratch. so that base number could be quite
relevant to the discussion of how many are going
no, but i'm aware of the over-all trends in
the society and it is towards cleaner and
sustainable ways of doing things. more and
more people will keep applying pressure even
upon companies that aren't as socially
responsible as others because competitively
over the long haul a company that doesn't
pay attention to the wants of the customers
isn't going to do as well as the rest that do.
a prime example of my point. there are many
hunter-gatherer societies that do not live off
a varied diet.
plenty of hunter-gatherers were/are in the
reads like begging the question to me.
if you were an idiot farmer then yeah.
there were likely idiot hunter-gatherers
who starved too.
the mere fact is that it is likely that
there were people clumping together for
reasons other than agriculture long before
agriculture came along.
the whole thing is a chicken-and-egg argument...
this is the point in dispute isn't it? i claim
that class divisions existed in groups long before
this is a very limited view of hunter-gathering
societies, which happens to ignore some groups
which do store food (because they live places
where it stays cold enough to freeze meat) or the
herders who have large stores of food on the hoof.
it also ignores the many groups which lived in
northern climates which required them to have
food stores for the winter or they'd die. so
clearly there is a bias in his writings, observations
and comments which exclude peoples who clearly
survived just fine for thousands of years without
agriculture who also had class divisions in their
perhaps to be an elite you had to be healthier
to begin with? perhaps there are other reasons
for the elite being healthier? like they had
personal servants who kept things clean? that
could make a difference in disease rates apart
i don't find his arguments well thought out
and too much of the conclusion is biased by
i'd suggest finding a better approach, but
shoddy thinking isn't too likely going to help
much at all.
strong and smart person is likely at
the top of the heap. most likely that
person will even be more on top if they
are considered good looking or have
charisma, if they have many children
or many wives or husbands.
children, elders, injured, chronically
sick, mothers, fathers, those who know
the plants and animals well.
there are many different types of
layering going on, one person may be
at the bottom of the heap in one aspect
but near the top in another.
i think that's not very likely. families
stick together even in the face of some
rather rotten behaviors and situations.
many many stories of police getting called
into a domestic dispute to help break it up
only to find that both parties start in on
the police officer. there's a good reason
why police hate domestic trouble calls...
all the stuff i wrote above.
i'd look into that study further because i'd
want to know how they actually did the comparison
between the two societies.
repetition of the conclusion does not make
an argument any stronger. the "mere fact" is
sure does. there's not many places left to hunt and
gather from. monocrop farming is likely to continue
to remove wild spaces and kill off diversity. so...
if you really want to make the most difference put
your money into nature conservation efforts in
various places (to protect diversity), read up on
native plants and how to give them a good home,
add more food plants for critters to your property
and keep the water from getting polluted that
runs through your area.
i've already made the choice to be a peasant
farmer in the US. why would i want to go to
either of those places? :) i'll be green and
save the transportation cost.
so that is a comparison between two groups
of agriculturalists. one built topsoil and
the other destroyed it. what were the differences
that brought this about?
wouldn't the existance of both terra preta
and agriculture based upon thousands of years
be a counter-example to his claims? from
what i have read of digs done in that area
i'm not hearing anything that tells me that
was a society divided by deep stratification
or that those people suffered from malnutrition
and diseases. so i think this is a more
interesting and fruitful thing to look into
or think about.
as for the rest of the above agricultural
tragedy line of arguments.
too many holes in assumptions and comparisons
being made. selective biases in picking groups
to compare, etc. i just don't know how you can
consider his arguments very strong. looking into
the one study mentioned might be on the list of
topics for the future, but otherwise i think i'll
let you have the last words.
Thanks for the reference "Salad Bar Beef". I just
ordered it from the library. Ain't the internet swell?
I sit corrected, but it still seems you are being a tad harsh in
your criticism of Salatin. Given that most farmers are losing
topsoil, that Salatin is creating topsoil is a paradigm shift of
Then in my dictionary I find that sustainable agriculture is
conserving an ecological balance by avoiding depletion of natural
Permaculture, however, is the development of agricultural
ecosystems intended to be sustainable and self-sufficient.
The later definition seems to be what you are chastising
Salatin for not being. We all want our heros to be bigger,
and better, but ol'Joel ain't doin' too bad.
I notice that "Salad Bar Beef" was written in 1995, whereas
"Omnivore's Dilemma" was written in 2009. Just conjecturing
here, but perhaps the differences in descriptions reflect the
evolution of Polyface Farms. (Nous allons voir.)
I don't like regressive taxes either, but I'm sure that it is quite
to have 'crusty adjustments, and an uneasy head, too.
Well, that takes the wind out of my rant!
You'll have to admit, go on admit it, that you hadn't shared the
source of your information with me previously. This is going to be
tricky, because I already have 2 books in progress, plus a loaner from the
library. I probably won't finish it (I have a knack for picking big books. I
still have a couple of pounds of " A People's History of the United States:
1492 to Present" by Howard Zinn, to read.
<(Amazon.com product link shortened) />/
I think that there are only a couple of families of raccoons locally.
The highway takes a terrible toll on them. I put down chicken wire on the
garden beds, which is pretty effective, but has led them dig in the pots in
the yard. It's kinda like having kids again. So far, we have gotten along
<(Amazon.com product link shortened)
Against the Grain: How Agriculture Has Hijacked Civilization
The evolutionary road is littered with failed experiments, however, and
Manning suggests that agriculture as we have practiced it runs against
both our grain and nature's. Drawing on the work of anthropologists,
biologists, archaeologists, and philosophers, along with his own
travels, he argues that not only our ecological ills-overpopulation,
erosion, pollution-but our social and emotional malaise are rooted in
the devil's bargain we made in our not-so-distant past. And he offers
personal, achievable ways we might re-contour the path we have taken to
resurrect what is most sustainable and sustaining in our own nature and
I know it doesn't prove anything, but at least I, and Jarod Diamond,
aren't alone in this belief.
I can't believe that I found another book to read :O(
And this would be "Permaculture : a designer's manual / by Bill Mollison
; illustrated by Andrew Jeeves", 576 pages, Tagari Publications
Good thing his books are available at the library. They are very pricy.
Warm, wet environments also lead to rapid breakdown of organic material
(OM). This is also the reason that healthy soil should only be 5% by
weight, 10% by volume "OM". Otherwise, you'll pollute just like chemical
In the book by Charles Mann, "1492", it was noted that the Amazonians
used "slashed and burn" agriculture, which was detrimental to the land.
Exhausting the laterite soil, they had to move every couple of years
IIRC. Subsequent archeology revealed that the Amazonians had a much more
complex society that wasn't reflected in their "slash, and burm"
agriculture. Prior to the arrival of diseased Europeans, many Amazonians
lead an urban life based on great orchards. However, to protect
themselves against European diseases, Amazonians left their cities to
live in small groups, which survived by subsistent farming.
The soil needs to have organic material in order to hold moisture, and
to feed the micro-organisms that compose the soil ecology, which
ultimately feed the plants. Whether the "OM" is lost by the rapid
oxidation of cellulose in a fire, or the stimulation of micro-organism
in the soil from aeration caused by a plow doesn't make any difference.
Any consistent loss of "OM" from the soil will reduce it's fertility.
The forests, of course, are the source of freshwater.
been a very interesting read. i think the
general information in it is worth contemplation.
i'm not sure some of his political or other views
are really needed, but how could anyone write
such a large topical book like this and not
wander off on a few rants here or there? :)
sadly, it really needed a good editor and more
proof readers to catch the many textual layout
mistakes, miswords, and outright factual errors.
[moles don't eat/store bulbs, but they may shift
them a little bit in their diggings -- other
creatures that use their tunnels may eat and store
bulbs, but that is a whole different thing...]
i think this can vary, if you have an actively
growing crop with heavy roots already established
then it should be able to soak up extra nutrients
i suspect it was the fact that the whole area
basically collapsed and the entire social setup
was likely destroyed too. what remained were some
fairly isolated groups and those groups not being
a part of the central peoples may have had taboos
about copying their ways of terra preta or tree
farming. "Look what happened to them! We better
do something different."
yes, but the added harm in fire is that some
nutrients are lost to the air and dispersed.
even those that can float for a long time would
end up 70-80% in the oceans. at least with
localized decays you have a better chance of
keeping trace nutrients in the area.
On Thursday, May 2, 2013 9:44:34 AM UTC-6, songbird wrote:
Dudette: I've noticed some really long postings where you answered
paragraph by paragraph and they were VERY long.
Also the double spacing is how these postings appear on my screen...
I do NOT double-space them...blame Google.
I'm doomed. I'm 10 pages into it, and it is an effortless read. The
worst thing about it is the number of books the he mentions as asides.
They fall like feathers in molting season. If you liked "Omnivore", then
Against the Grain: How Agriculture Has Hijacked Civilization
<(Amazon.com product link shortened)
A growing body of somewhat controversial scholarship ties the beginnings
of war to the "culture of scarcity" that emerged with the invention,
sometime in the Neolithic era and probably in the eastern Mediterranean,
of agriculture. Before that, these theorists contend, humans lived as
hunter-gatherers who were, far from the common vision of the
half-starved caveman, quite comfortable and well-fed, because their diet
was both varied and seasonal. The investment of time and energy to grow
a few crops led, paradoxically, to both great excess and horrific want;
when the crops failed, famine followed among people whose population had
swelled beyond the small tribes of the earlier peoples. These theories
are regularly bruited about at academic meetings, but rarely are they
the subject of popular writing (Daniel Quinn's 1992 novel Ishmael
constitutes an exception). Manning brings theory to life with
well-crafted essays that cover such diverse subjects as the Irish potato
famine and the controversy over bioengineered plants. Readable and
well-researched, this book unsettles as it informs.
I have a sinking feeling.
Tomatoland : how modern industrial agriculture destroyed our most
<(Amazon.com product link shortened)
Looks like it is good too :O(
The Whole Soy Story: The Dark Side of America's Favorite Health Food by
Kaayla T. Daniel
<(Amazon.com product link shortened)
Too early to tell. The writing seems a little pedantic to my taste, but
all the elements for a good, corporate conspiracy are here.
I think I'm running out of bookmarks.
North Point Press, 2004., according to the library.
North Point Press; 1st edition (January 13, 2005) according to Amazon.
534 pages, huh? I'll get you for this, bird.
Maybe I could interest you in "Animal Factory: The Looming Threat of
Industrial Pig, Dairy, and Poultry Farms to Humans and the Environment
by David Kirby
<(Amazon.com product link shortened)
It practically reads itself,honest, and is only 512 pages.
or The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism
by Naomi Klein
<>(Amazon.com product link shortened)
Who knew Milton Friedman sold Neo-liberal economics to Russia, China,
and the Chilean dictator, Pinochet?
and I still have a pound or 2 of " A People's History of the United
by Howard Zinn
to read. Oy.
:) it is another interesting read, i think he
has a pretty good grasp of the topic.
harhar! it sounds too much like books i've
already read (how much different from _The
Omnivores Dilemma_ is it?)
any history of the WMF could make almost anyone
still on my list for next winter... i think
i'll put tomatoland on that winter list too as
i would like to keep going on the permaculture
references for a bit yet.
:) much better to have enough to read than
be stuck watching tv. i keep the podcast list
topped up too when i get times to listen. i
have two rainy days forecast... almost done
with the first permaculture book by Mollison
and then will get to one other of his books
that i have on the pile.
Against the Grain: How Agriculture Has Hijacked Civilization
by Richard Manning
<(Amazon.com product link shortened)
I'm about 60 pages into the book (a mere 240 pages).
If you don't care for the murder rate of 20-30%, you probably won't like
the complete genocide that the farmers wreaked on the hunter/gathers.
Although farming startd 8,000 - 10,000 years ago, the full complement of
wheat, barley, sheep, goats, and cows didn't really coalesce into a
suite until about 5,600 years ago, near the Caucasus Mountains.They are
identified by their pottery which is distinctively marked with straight
lines, or as the German anthropologists called them Linearbandkeramik
(LBK is the designation for these farmers who spoke Indo-European).
Farming wasn't spread by adaptation, but conquest. The LBK farmers made
it to the Atlantic in about 300 years, taking no prisoners. The
"cave-painters" (Cro-Magnons), hunter/gaterers, last stand was in the
south-west of France. The Cro-Magnon's descendants are most likely the
Basque, who speak a language like no other.
The book goes on to describe the encounter between the LBK, and the
"Scandahoovians", which was a stalemate.
A ripping good book.
Planted a dozen Yellow Banana Peppers yesterday. Instead of prepping in
my normal fashion, I've taken to poking a hole in the soil, and then
putting on some fertilizer, and then some potting soil, and lastly the
plant, with what ever potting soil is necessary to make the ground flush.
Today is sunflowers, lettuce, and potting some herbs.
i finished it two nights ago. quick read.
i'm not really sure what i think of it. as it
is a bit dated and the enemy of popularity has
turned from big-ag processor ADM to ag-chem-seed
i enjoyed parts of it. i have to conceed the
poorer health and starvation of some peoples under
the version of agriculture much practiced in the
i think the current world is making up for it
in some ways, but the question is if it is
sustainable, and it doesn't look like it is as
most are currently practicing...
i've been digging and burying more shredded bark
and wood pieces and then after filling it back in
and then topping it off with soil that is actually
topsoil (and not clay). into that went about 220
onions of three types and a small patch of turnips.
i was a bit worried by the lack of bees on the
blooming honeysuckle for a few days, but they were
out in force today. *whew!* we'll be planting
tomatoes and peppers within the next few weeks and
i'll be finding more spots for beans, beets and
peas, cucumbers, squash, strawberries are blooming
and the rhubarb is coming along well as are the
peas and onions already planted and the beets
sprouted days before i expected to see them.
the challenge is keeping the melon seeds from
sprouting and pushing up so much that they are
pushing all the beets out of the ground. i guess
that is one way to thin them...
rain due this week. we'll appreciate it. the
killdeer are still sitting on their eggs.
busy day today. i'm due for a bit of a snooze.
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